Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...

Drone wrote:

why? Why do you need to do it?

Because stupidity affects me, you twit!!!

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when you mother go preachig to you, what do you say to her?

'shut up, you boring old woman! you're incapable of undestanding how futile your faith and your preaching are!

i bet you don't say a thing...my only option here at home too...

I bet I do...or did in the past..nowadays I steer the conversations clear.

I bet I let her be because i care for her and I know she needs her faith.

Satyr, the genius wrote:

Christians can claim the same thing. Their delusions remain unshaken no matter what you tell them or what reasoning you provide.
If they were able to accept the truth about themselves, would they not change or be driven mad?

what truth about myself I must accept, Satyr? That I'm a bloody idiot? That I cannot think? How in the hell would you be capable of proving this to me, since these are prejudiced assessments with no real basis?

do you see the absurdity of comparing me to Christians, when I myself don't accept the truths of this religion?

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This is a debate?

Shit, what's the topic? Me?

no, this is, or SHOULD be a conversation

what a fool of me for thinking that I could have an adult conversation with you, right?

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Aye...another fearless one.

Why is there a correlation between obtuseness and these statements of bravado?
I wont tell you.

How convenient of you to be able to dismiss what is superior to you, in that way.
I guess it can explain why you are so dumb.

Weakness always dismisses what it cannot reach....in that exact way.
Strength is produced when one inspired by strength. It emulates.

But you stay as you are...in a comfortable, fearless state of denial, and when someone points out a truth you don;'t like, even thuogh you are not afraid of it, then just tell yourself how 'limited' his understanding of life is.

shit, sometimes you just get on my nerves! OUR UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY IS ALWAYS LIMITED!! Why can't you understand that?

are you implying that i should blind accept what others think about me even if I don't see what has lead them to such conclusions?

THAT'S exactly what I'd like to refute, Satyr: your absurd claim that your understanding of things is somewhat better or superior to mine or to everyone else's...

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Really?
There you are comforting yourself, despite your fearlessness.

Tell me, retard, can a dog know what a man does?
Given what you just said, it should...but no, no levels, no inequality of potential must stand in your way.
Your delusion depends on it.

which delusion?

WHICH FUCKING DELUSION?

can't you see, you mf, I'm a disillusioned man. I have no illusions about anything. I see things just the way they are. i'm as honest to myself as i can be.

what in the hell is this 'delusion', after all?

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Well, there goes genetics out the door...you just dismissed all that science crap, as well.

How do you do it?
How comforting it is to think that...and how fearless.

education, knowledge, self-consciousness, can compensate for genetic deficiency, if i really believed they are that important

i'm a perfectly sane and healthy man: in which sense are you INSINUATING that i'm a genetical failure?

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and is not the dog also our brother?
It doe not fear us. It can know if we can know. We all share the same condition, really.

What a fearless perspective. And so comforting.

i see what you mean. yes, i'm not that dumb, Satyr.

you are trying to say me that I PRETEND that we are not different so that I may justify my weakness and my fragility, my 'feminized' mind, right?

how cowardly and base a tactics!

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Can you put a mask over your brain? It's ugly.

Change aliases, your 'true name is but another label, and you still remain the same old moron.

ha, you make me laugh sometimes, do you know?

i'm still improving my intelligence and my intellectual abilities, man. I haven't stopped growing yet. i may still have much to learn.

i just wish you could make me see why i should be glad for that.

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It makes all the difference to the here and now...who cares for posterity, oh fearless one?

The experience matters.
That's all that matters.

yes, but we're all still in the same boat

i know that the here and now is all that there is

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Yes, and then you should be humble towards a chicken because you also depend on it for your sustenance.

You don't even understand how consciousness is discrimination and that these value judgments of strong/weak, hard/soft, valuable/worthless all create the sense of self.
But you don't want to sense self...you want to disappear.

no, i want to live, i want to live a rewarding and quiet life.

if i wanted to disappear, i'd kill myself. i see nothing wrong or cowardly in the act.

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Oh, little retard, but you are...you are.
A stunted tree in a forest where the farmer warps his trees to make them more manageable.

Does it make me feel strong?
No, not really.
I already know that i am so, mentally, in comparison to you.

Have you ever actually produced a piece of work proving that you are not retarded, other than your declarations?
I can claim that i can write brilliant poetry but will not me writing a poem suffice instead of just claiming to be able to write one?

i still need to improve both my language skills and my writing abilities

there is still a long way to go

i hope i'll be able someday to produce these interesting pieces of writings you're asking for

then, i'll be interested in what your reactions will be

so far, i agree that my posts here or at ILP have never been shining examples of brilliance.

again, no 'superiority' is proved here, i hope!

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No, because she's more intelligent...genetic again.
She is a woman so that makes any irrational thinking difficult, but she's more pragmatic about her faith.

She admits that she needs it because it gives her strength.

Your mother, and the flawed genes she gave you, can explain why you are as stupid as you are.

my 'flawed' genes...

like i was talking with a defender of eugenics...

do give me a break, how can you know that my genes are 'flawed'?

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How do you deal with the old woman?

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we're the best of friends. She's actually one of the few people I respect.

see: one of the few people in the world you respect is a Christian old woman!

do you see what i was trying to tell you, Wanderer?

we're all in the same boat...

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In your case that much is painfully obvious.

good, i don't want to be an emotionless machine.

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there you go...mental masturbation.
Retard, pragmatic means using insights, getting nutrition from thoughts, not just endlessly chewing on them like gum, getting nothing, and then throwing the gum away when your stress is relieved.

You two are the least pragmatic of all.
He, actually, admits that he's just there to have fun...no seeking truth...just shooting the shit and pretending something profound is occurring.

Why?
Because he has no mind for it, so he dismisses it as not useful.

this is one of your biggest, if not the biggest, flaw...

ILP is a community of people. there go a lot of different folks, with different personalities and different worldviews. Specifically on the case of Faust, i think his lucidity and his sense of humor is amazing.

tell me, what would be the purpose of a web community where everybody thinks the same way?

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Ah, retard, if only you could see what power lies in philosophy.
But you cannot because you have to be given the utility...you must be force-fed like a little baby.

i know that it's useful to improve our knowledge, but the truth is: the more we study philosophy, the more we feel its inherent vacuity. A man can be a very wise and enlightened person without ever studying it, i can mention Lao-tzu as an example.

Do you remember Cioran's essays on it?

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]See what I mean?

You have to be given the usefulness, because you are unable to find it on your own. you don't even understand most of the things you read and so like all retards in school you tune out and you make fun of nerds who can get it.

Simpleton, and I mean it, it's all about efficiency...cost/benefit.

When you understand, for instance, how women, in general think and behave, you stop chasing dreams, you stop wasting your time with ineffective strategies or on goals that will not satisfy you.
It's about focusing the Will more precisely, and not being controlled by social and cultural trends and peer pressure.

It is about knowing yourself.

With women, in particular, it has helped me a lot...in my younger years. now I don't give a shit as much to put any of my insights into practice.
In dealing with others, in general, it has helped me enormously, by understanding the beasts before me.

In knowing what is valuable and necessary to me and what important in my life, besides what I am told should be important.

ok, i have already agreed that it can have a limited use.

Nietzsche and Schopenahauer, for instance, taught me a lot of things about women and the world

Camus taught me and teaches me to keep my mind open and lucid...

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And that is what makes you so special.

Then wait for death...it'll only be a slight change to what your current state is.

the bitches i like to fuck sometimes don't think i'm dead: i always keep them satisfied.

you fool, i don't want death, i want to live an HONEST life. do you even know what an honest life is? a life without illusions.

i want to die as disillusioned as i have lived.

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A whiner, begging to be given value.

the you're revealing now what you really thought about my 'question' to you at ILP

what a pity you know me so little...

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You haven't pointed out where?

Retard, all opinions seek objectivity and find it to a degree.
There is no absolute, you moron, and that's why we seek the closest thing to it...clarity.

My opinions are more objective than anyone elses. They refer to reality, and do not deny it. they refer to observable phenomena, not delusions.

You just make statements with no accompanying arguments...and that's why you are retarded and a waste of my time.

Whether you like it or not, there is a reality and our challenge is to see it as fully as we can, before we die...but if you wish to hide from it and seek out happiness, like wonderer, then go for it.

my motive is objectivity...you just want to excuse your own inability by making it all equally subjective...degree, retard, degree.

i don't deny that there must be a reality, i deny that our understanding of it may ever be really accurate or complete

like a mirage in a desert, the way this world reveals itself to our eyes and our understanding is always ephemeral and delusory

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Failed genetics, then.

Your heritage matters, little brain.

it matters, but it's not everything

try to look at your son as a mere 'pile of shit'...is the sight pleasant for you?

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retard, do you try to read or try to dismiss?
Reread what I said.
I know you more intimately than most people around you do...I know how you think.
But you want help and so this is a specific request...help with what...i cannot know the specifics of your immediate environment...only how you've reacted to it.

did I commit a mistake when i asked your help?

did I reveal something about me?

did I offer you everything you needed to know?

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You are pathetic...keep squirming.

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Reality is that which we all have varying degrees of accurate perception on.

Reality is the common experience that is independent from our will and our desires and our interpretations.
Our task is to make our interpretations of it as accurate as possible...as objective as possible.

The universe doesn't care...

well, you're being more reasonable now.

try to know me better and then you'll be able to make a really accurate assessment on me.

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Yes it is and self-hypocrisy, your kind, is disgusting.

The few times that i have let somethings go, I've faced dismay and horror...so now i only share certain part of my thinking with certain people, a few select friends that get it.

With the rest I pretend.

good

what means that an honest and humble man who is always sincere, a street person, for instance, can afford to be more sincere than you?

what's the importance of knowledge and self-awareness when all we can do is to improve our ability to be part of an endless farce?

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Then how about exploring your full potentials before you die, you brain-dead retard?

that's fine in theory but difficult in practice

but yes, i'll try to do it

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And in a few days I intend to become an even bigger one.
what cultural bullshit you've bought into...call me a thief, why don't you or an adulterer...shit boy, i've overcome these cultural controls.

Here's what I will not be: delusional and a hypocrite to my self, first, and to a select few others, second.

no, you haven't overcome these cultural controls

you still respect your neighbours, you still love your mother, you still care for your son...

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I've offered all I've got, honestly, directly and in public.

If you can find no use for them, then go away!!!
Ignore me...you simpleton. Leave me alone.

You want a leader, a father and i already have a son...and I don't require followers.

i won't ignore you because we're essentially equal, Satyr

you're like a brother who does not like me, but whom i can't help admiring

but no, i don't want to 'follow' you, and judging from what you say to me, i'd NEVER dare to think so

i want you to teach me to respect you though, like i never respected anyone in my life, not even my deceased father...

Satyr wrote:

But you are a woman...in how you think.

And? Deceiving me on line would give you that much needed ego boost, that support that you are smart, right?

Trust me, face to face, you have just about chance of deceiving me as a Christian has of converting me.
But how easily you expose yourself, retard.

i'm no woman...at least the bitches whom i fuck don't think so, for they wouldn't feel so attracted by me if i were

it's amusing this conversation, Satyr, because the more you insist that i could not deceive you the more i know it's a mistaken opinion of yours

i'm more difficult to understand than you think. i always talk about honesty, but it may also be just another trick. the 'real' truth you will never know FOR SURE...

but keep on deluding yourself...

Quote :

What you just said pulsated with need. I suspected it and thanks for verifying my suspicions.
I bet you giggle when you trick me on-line. It gives you that excuse to dismiss all the things I've said about you.

all the things you've said about me...

then this is all a game where everybody does everything to demonstrate that your assessments are untrue?

Quote :

Oh retard and this statement is contradicted by what you said before.

It's all about power...and you fooling me gives you that, does it not?

no, it's funny though, I admit it...

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See, there it is again....the duplicity...you know little of what motivates you and now you present yourself as knowing me...you want o tell yourself, and me, that you control me....you see me...

i admit it, you're a formidable adversary. it'd be an honor for me to be able to defeat you. and maybe i'll do it in the future...

Satyr wrote:

spoken like all true nihilists.

I don't want to escape my self, i want to complete my self as much as possible.

But you and your kind can go back to your self-hating, christian shame, seeking salvation in annihilating your essence.

yes, call me nihilst, compare me with Christians, you might know by now how much this irritates me...

i have no 'kind', that's all that i know. I indentify myself with SOME things nihilists/Christians say, but I don't agree with them completely

i'm as distant from them as i am from you...

Quote :

If a dog could speak it would say the same thing.

But evidence to the contrary abounds.

there must be evidence that we are not 100% equal

i do believe in difference of intelligence, awareness, etc...

i just don't believe in real and sheer superiority

i refuse to accept any man as my superior.

Quote :

Why is that?

Are you not here, trying to bring me down?
Are you not reading my material and commenting on it?
Are you not trying to measure up to me?

Your actions, retard, are more honest, because your words are based no duplicity and an absence of self-consciousness.

This 'challenge', Satyr, is a test. I'm testing you, i'm testing how you react to my words and how you approach me. So far you haven't really impressed me as much as you think.

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Too bad for you.

hey, that was serious

from the first time you talked to me about your son I got the impression that you might actually be a good father.

i can't really imagine you beating your son, or anyone...

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Because stupidity affects me, you twit!!!

you could simply ignore it, like you ignore 'Mcmiserable', for instance

it's not that hard: i'm pretty indifferent to the stupidity around me.

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I bet I do...or did in the past..nowadays I steer the conversations clear.

I bet I let her be because i care for her and I know she needs her faith.

do you see, i act the same way towards my mother...

we do have much in common, Satyr...

Drone wrote:

what truth about myself I must accept, Satyr? That I'm a bloody idiot? That I cannot think? How in the hell would you be capable of proving this to me, since these are prejudiced assessments with no real basis?

The genetic determinism...dear child...reality is indifferent and so so cruel.
Do you think I would tell a short person that his condition is irrelevant and superficial?
not I.
The brutal truth is what I am after...not comforting words of social companionship and shared suffering.

I cannot prove it to you. you have an ingrained defensive mechanism that resists this conscious realization.
But you sense it.
That's what keeps you coming back for more.

A few days left.

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do you see the absurdity of comparing me to Christians, when I myself don't accept the truths of this religion?

You don't accept them consciously, but unconsciously you've adopted their premises, because they are part of the cultural milieu.
Do you understand what indoctrination means?

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no, this is, or SHOULD be a conversation

what a fool of me for thinking that I could have an adult conversation with you, right?

Try saying something adult and see what happens.

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shit, sometimes you just get on my nerves! OUR UNDERSTANDING OF REALITY IS ALWAYS LIMITED!! Why can't you understand that?

I do...but this is not an equalization argument.

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are you implying that i should blind accept what others think about me even if I don't see what has lead them to such conclusions?

I'm telling you that some judgments are better than others and that accepting the possibility that certain criticism might be right, may lead you to a way of correcting them.

Quote :

THAT'S exactly what I'd like to refute, Satyr: your absurd claim that your understanding of things is somewhat better or superior to mine or to everyone else's...

Then do so with reasoning and arguments...Just proclaiming things will not suffice.

I've spent years analyzing, thinking, reading, and finding patterns....you just coming in and making statements will not cut it, you retard.

Quote :

which delusion?

WHICH FUCKING DELUSION?

Fearlessness.

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can't you see, you mf, I'm a disillusioned man. I have no illusions about anything. I see things just the way they are. i'm as honest to myself as i can be.

what in the hell is this 'delusion', after all?

The delusion you just stated.
If you cannot support this with arguments or evidence, then is it not simply a declaration?
When you claimed fearlessness, was what?
Was it honest or just you being unconscious of your own self?

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education, knowledge, self-consciousness, can compensate for genetic deficiency, if i really believed they are that important

another feel-good delusion.
Natural selection is harsher than that, fool.

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i'm a perfectly sane and healthy man: in which sense are you INSINUATING that i'm a genetical failure?

Mentally, yes....socially...anything is possible when he rules are dictated by human invention.
Even a fat man can be desirable, then. Still unfit.

Quote :

ha, you make me laugh sometimes, do you know?

i'm still improving my intelligence and my intellectual abilities, man. I haven't stopped growing yet. i may still have much to learn.

i just wish you could make me see why i should be glad for that.

I cannot. This is you interacting with reality.
A personal journey.

I can point to some things that I've learned along the way, but then you can always say that I am suffering from arrogance or a need to justify my failures, as wonderer does, because they do not offer you an immediate gratification.
Sorry, I cannot sugarcoat my lessons. I learned then harshly and I express them that way.

Sink or swim...not my problem.

Your father's, maybe, but not mine.
Yours, most certainly, but not mine.

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yes, but we're all still in the same boat

i know that the here and now is all that there is

I am also on the same boat with the cat across the street...yet it isn't me and it is far beneath me.

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no, i want to live, i want to live a rewarding and quiet life.

if i wanted to disappear, i'd kill myself. i see nothing wrong or cowardly in the act.

Then learn to discriminate...to select...to choose.

Then learn to overcome the cultural imperative and be discriminating.
Have taste.
Teach yourself to hide and to see from your secret places.

The techniques are reserved for my son. not you.
I AM an elitist.

I do not give away, for nothing, what it took a lifetime to gain.

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i still need to improve both my language skills and my writing abilities

there is still a long way to go

Read.
I read four sci-fi books a year when I was 14.
That's what improved my language skills.
My father read, a lot, so I got interested.

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i hope i'll be able someday to produce these interesting pieces of writings you're asking for

Then learn to be honest, no matter what the social repercussions might be.
Learn to be indifferent to what others want toh ear...and speak your mind, you fool.
This is an opportunity.

Your last one...your only one.
Take it!!!!
Do not fear how others will characterize you, like wonderer does, say your piece in your own words. Step up to the responsibility of it all.
Take it!!!

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then, i'll be interested in what your reactions will be

so far, i agree that my posts here or at ILP have never been shining examples of brilliance.

again, no 'superiority' is proved here, i hope!

Fear or determinism?
You decide.

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my 'flawed' genes...

like i was talking with a defender of eugenics...

do give me a break, how can you know that my genes are 'flawed'?

Performance.

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this is one of your biggest, if not the biggest, flaw...

ILP is a community of people. there go a lot of different folks, with different personalities and different worldviews. Specifically on the case of Faust, i think his lucidity and his sense of humor is amazing.

tell me, what would be the purpose of a web community where everybody thinks the same way?

No flaw...just your inability to discriminate.

A fool casting about humor...what is it good for? A distraction?
Humor, coupled with substance, is productive, but a fools game, is a long-haired buffoon making an idiot of himself, and finding comfort in the attention.

Just as with insult, humor with no meat, is nothing more than a momentary distraction...fodder for moons - a release. Learn to mix your humor and your insults with substance.

Learn to be honest, even when you pretend to be foolish and childish and distracting.
The best comedians are the ones that mix honest truths in their foolishness and caricatures.
The best artists are the ones that expose themselves fearlessly, in public, daring the other to deny their perspective.

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i know that it's useful to improve our knowledge, but the truth is: the more we study philosophy, the more we feel its inherent vacuity. A man can be a very wise and enlightened person without ever studying it, i can mention Lao-tzu as an example.

Do you remember Cioran's essays on it?

Then, like me, read another's perspective after the age of thirty.

Teach yourself to think on your own.

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you fool, i don't want death, i want to live an HONEST life. do you even know what an honest life is? a life without illusions.

i want to die as disillusioned as i have lived.

You retard, my every posting is about just that!!!

Quote :

the you're revealing now what you really thought about my 'question' to you at ILP

what a pity you know me so little...

I don't care enough to know more. What have I to gain in return, stupid fuck?
Will you blow me?
Do you carry my genes as my son does?

Quote :

it matters, but it's not everything

try to look at your son as a mere 'pile of shit'...is the sight pleasant for you?

No, retard, but reality rarely is pleasant...still nothing huh?

Moron, unlike you and your kind, I refuse to close my eyes to reality, no matter how disturbing or vicious or cruel it is.

If you seek comforting and easy escape routes then leave me alone and go find wonderer or Xunzian or Carleas.
GO AWAY!!!!!

Wait I will...in time.

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did I commit a mistake when i asked your help?

did I reveal something about me?

did I offer you everything you needed to know?

More...the way you did so was revealing.

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no, you haven't overcome these cultural controls

you still respect your neighbours, you still love your mother, you still care for your son...

You are mixing genes with memes, retard.

I respect the neighbors because there are severe repercussions if I do not. That is cultural.
I respect my mother because she has given me so much. That is principle.

I respect my son because he carried my genes and offers me a promise. That is genes.

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i won't ignore you because we're essentially equal, Satyr

Oh, dear boy, if only you knew how untrue that was.
But reality will teach you...you an think whatever delusion comforts you.

You people just don't get it.
I just describe the reality...reality is the standard...not I.

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i want you to teach me to respect you though, like i never respected anyone in my life, not even my deceased father...

Then the authority of a father is what yo seek.
Once you break free from that need, you will understand me. If ever.
I broke free of my father when he was still alive. I became his father...the one he lost when he was 9.

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i'm no woman...at least the bitches whom i fuck don't think so, for they wouldn't feel so attracted by me if i were

it's amusing this conversation, Satyr, because the more you insist that i could not deceive you the more i know it's a mistaken opinion of yours

Then you haven't completely grasped my The Feminization of Man thesis.

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i'm more difficult to understand than you think. i always talk about honesty, but it may also be just another trick. the 'real' truth you will never know FOR SURE...

Retard...if I only went on what others told me, I would be fucked.
Your assessment of yourself, yes, i will not ever know, unless you tell me...but you, YOU, you stupid fuck, i will see for my self...whether you choose to tell me or not.

Very few know themselves and their own motives....so why would I care what they think of themselves?
it is possible to know another more than they know themselves...the secret?
Fear, you stupid fuck...and intelligence.

The rest will go unsaid.
I prefer you to think of yourself as mysterious. It makes you more vulnerable.

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but keep on deluding yourself...

I will precious one...and that will make you all the more transparent.

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all the things you've said about me...

then this is all a game where everybody does everything to demonstrate that your assessments are untrue?

Some of my assessments, idiot, are ploys to make the other expose themselves further.
Little tricks i picked up along the way.

Reading another is no easy affair...especially using this medium.
So I must do what i must do and play the game.

In the end people are begging to tell you everything.
All you have to do is wait and play along.

Defeated ....again.
So be it.


The only reason I am a "formidable adversary" is because I have reality on my side.

All i do is have the ability to perceive it with honesty and clarity.

truth be told, i don't know how i should go on with this...

from your last post, i see you GOT ME TOTALLY WRONG. you think i'm trying to make you adopt me as a 'disciple', an apprentice, a 'son'. THAT WAS NOT THE FUCKING POINT!

tell me exactly what makes you think that.

be frank and clear.

this is the only part of our conversation that has really surprised and disappointed me. your advices were really welcome.

You come here, whether you percive it or not, seeking me out, trying to gain my attentions, and then attempting to manipulate me into telling you what I've learned in my life.

Then you reveal that you have lost your father or, I had suspected...that if he were still alive he's a very weak character in your life.


This has occurred to me in my real life, as well, many times.

I have a few women but mostly men seeking my advice and my acceptance.
They all, for some reason, find me fascinating...but refuse to admit that they want me to teach them.

Some challenge me, on a regular basis, trying to gain my admiration and my acceptance of them as my equals.

Some, mostly the females, are seeking to sooth my aching spirit or to partake of my empowerment...they are secretly, even if they do not consciously percive it and cannot accept it, attracted to my powerful mind.

Some just ant to be my friend and through this attain my status, as they perceive it, by association.

Satyr wrote:

You come here, whether you percive it or not, seeking me out, trying to gain my attentions, and then attempting to manipulate me into telling you what I've learned in my life.

Then you reveal that you have lost your father or, I had suspected...that if he were still alive he's a very weak character in your life.

This has occurred to me in my real life, as well, many times.

my father actually died when i was six. he was a drunkard. I hardly remember his face. i was raised by my mother alone, and since i had many brothers, she couldn't give me much attention either.

however, i have got over this many years ago. i don't blame them for any feeling of dissatisfaction with life i may experience. they weren't even educated. they didn't even know what they were doing when they gave me birth...

my interest in you is something still uncomprehensible to me. as i already told you, you are, you seem to be at least, an interesting personality. i have never known a person endowed with a really interesting personality, personal convictions, their own style, attitude, this absolutely 'nasty' approach of yours...

maybe i'm just trying to take from you the secret of this personality. maybe i'm envious of it, who knows? i have really confessed that you fascinate me in a way i cannot entirely comprehend, so you may draw now the conclusion you want.

nothwithstanding, i DON'T really want to be your follower. i DON'T want to be your 'son'. i AM already your equal, in a sense i have already explained, that's enough for now. Just keep in mind that i despise 'followers' as much as you do. i read Nietzsche, but i'm no 'Nietzschean'. i read Camus, but i'm no 'Camusian'. well, get the picture.

i do want to develop my own intelligence and my own thinking. say me, do you think we are so utterly alone in our 'journey' that we can't even HELP one another, even help itself is a sign of 'weakness'?

or am i just displaying my confusion again?

Drone wrote:

my father actually died when i was six. he was a drunkard. I hardly remember his face. i was raised by my mother alone, and since i had many brothers, she couldn't give me much attention either.

My father was a hard-ass, but when I got out of the army his dominance over me had ended.

I experienced a role reversal as I became more of a father to him, than he to me.

That is when I began loving him.
My mother is the epitome of love and understanding...a rock of support in my life.
For her I payed the price and had a child.

A gift of gratitude....that also offers me pleasure.

Quote :

however, i have got over this many years ago. i don't blame them for any feeling of dissatisfaction with life i may experience. they weren't even educated. they didn't even know what they were doing when they gave me birth...

I don't think you've gotten over it at all...at least not subconsciously.

Quote :

my interest in you is something still uncomprehensible to me.

But comprehensible to me.

Quote :

as i already told you, you are, you seem to be at least, an interesting personality. i have never known a person endowed with a really interesting personality, personal convictions, their own style, attitude, this absolutely 'nasty' approach of yours...

My arrogance, beleive it or not, developed later on. i was a very humble youth...Then I began seeing how ugly people were and how damn stupid. That's when I became self-aware of my own quality in relation to them, and lost all fear in speaking my mind, unless there were social repercussions, being that idiots often hold positions of power and are vengeful towards anything that reminds them of their stupidity and inferiority and submission to the norms.

My misanthropy grew out of that. I realized few could claim to be truly human...as Diogenes knew.

Most were two-legged animals, parroting civility and imitating an ideal and repeating words they were given.

Pretend human beings.

For them being kind had to be attached to a God...a reward/threat, or else they could not pull it off.
All those idiots you see around you...they are all imitating what they were told is right.

They have no sense of it, on their own, it's theoretical. They learned it.

Quote :

maybe i'm just trying to take from you the secret of this personality. maybe i'm envious of it, who knows?

That too...
The secret:
Years and years of struggle, pain and suffering....concluding in a sense of comfortable survival.

See how wonderer squirms at the slightest hint of reality?
He fights agaisnt what threatens his delusions. He slanders me, trying to find insulting motives, so as to dismiss them.
He thinks an insult is automatically false or hateful.

My frustration?
The limitations to my will; my forced submission to rules and social conformity; being affected by mindless animals, with no idea what or why they a redoing...voting and affecting me in that way; holding positions of power over me, because they are so thoughtless and weak...Not being able to completely escape their stupidity.

But I'm working on it.

Quote :

i have really confessed that you fascinate me in a way i cannot entirely comprehend, so you may draw now the conclusion you want.

I already have.

This is not a hard case to figure out, nor is it my first.

I don't purposefully seek attention, i just attract it naturally.

I don't care to make friends or find female companionship, yet it comes to me.
The less I care the more it comes to me.

I'm not intentionally controversial, I just have opinions that happen to be contrary to current popular myths.

I sit here, sometimes, reading morons saying such ludicrous things or expressing opinions they have not thuoght through and only parrot and I am angered by the fact that I have to defer my will to these retards...I have to live in the products of their stupidity.

I want to shake them awake, tell them how feeble and dumb they are, expose the filth that makes them possible.

Do you think nature is just?
No, so imagine the duplicity of telling genetic failures that they matter or that they too are equal to everyone else.

Natural selection directly contradicts this preposterous human invention.

Nature is the sum of all previous nurturing...it cannot be corrected in a single lifetime!!!
Has monogamy altered the natural, genetic propensity to copulate with as many as possible?

NO!!!!
Even in Islamic states, under the penalty of death, adultery persists!!!
Why?
Because you cannot train out natural drives in a few generations. Evolution works at a slower pace than that.

Quote :

nothwithstanding, i DON'T really want to be your follower.

I don't care to have followers.
they disgust me and bore me to tears.

Quote :

i DON'T want to be your 'son'.

No, but you seek a father figure. That much is clear.

Quote :

i AM already your equal, in a sense i have already explained, that's enough for now.

Oh now, dear boy, you know nobody is anyone's equal...that this is an agreement of pretense meant to avoid conflict.

Do you know this?
Being similar, does not make one equal.
I am similar to an ape.

Quote :

Just keep in mind that i despise 'followers' as much as you do. i read Nietzsche, but i'm no 'Nietzschean'. i read Camus, but i'm no 'Camusian'. well, get the picture.

Then you understood Nietzsche, at least, better than most...notably better than [i]Sauwelios who still sniffs his mentors asshole and and sips from his urine directly through his cock.

This is an abomination!!!
The anti-Christ being made into an idol.

Quote :

i do want to develop my own intelligence and my own thinking. say me, do you think we are so utterly alone in our 'journey' that we can't even HELP one another, even help itself is a sign of 'weakness'?

Just as long as this help does not become addictive...like it has for Dunamis and his addiction to Spinoza and Sauwelios and his addiction to Nietzsche.

This is not philosophy...this is an obsession with another's philosophy.

A thinker must engage reality directly, honestly, and courageously...or else what is the point?
Being mentored is one thing...being dominated is another.

Quote :

or am i just displaying my confusion again?

Nope...you are on the right track.

good, now we have gone back to the way we were talking at ILP. that's nice.

Satyr wrote:

My father was a hard-ass, but when I got out of the army his dominance over me had ended.

I experienced a role reversal as I became more of a father to him, than he to me.

That is when I began loving him.
My mother is the epitome of love and understanding...a rock of support in my life.
For her I payed the price and had a child.

A gift of gratitude....that also offers me pleasure.

tell me, if you will, was it just that the motivation for you to become a father?

some years ago, for instance, could you think of that?

you know, i still think i will NEVER be willing to have a son, because I personally think i have nothing to offer him, neither the world. i have often realized that children are generally given birth randomly, without any previous concern for what the new human being actually will be and feel, but merely as a means to satisfy the need of the parents for a baby.

the saddest thing is that MOST children in this world, given the conditions under which they are given birth and raised, SHOULD never even exist. Obviously that doesn't mean that they should be slaughtered, hated or even judged, according to my view.

Quote :

I don't think you've gotten over it at all...at least not subconsciously.

why not?

I could be one more 'rebellious' teenager (ok, i'm 26 six now, so adolescence is long gone), full of anger towards my family and everybody else, just like many others you know. instead, i'm not really frustrated in relation to this. i don't hate or judge my mother, i know she has suffered a lot in this life too and isn't really guilty of her existence. i see the fact that i know and understand things a bit better than her as a sign that i must forgive and protect her, like i do, or rather, try to do.

i don't actually think my miserable past has turned into some obtuse complex inside my head, i don't think i have suffered that much.

Quote :

But comprehensible to me.

the most curious part is that you KNOW that people will always try to approach/refute/deal with you after they are aware of your existence, huh?

yes, you DO feel superior to most of us.

Quote :

My arrogance, beleive it or not, developed later on. i was a very humble youth...Then I began seeing how ugly people were and how damn stupid. That's when I became self-aware of my own quality in relation to them, and lost all fear in speaking my mind, unless there were social repercussions, being that idiots often hold positions of power and are vengeful towards anything that reminds them of their stupidity and inferiority and submission to the norms.

My misanthropy grew out of that. I realized few could claim to be truly human...as Diogenes knew.

Most were two-legged animals, parroting civility and imitating an ideal and repeating words they were given.

Pretend human beings.

For them being kind had to be attached to a God...a reward/threat, or else they could not pull it off.
All those idiots you see around you...they are all imitating what they were told is right.

They have no sense of it, on their own, it's theoretical. They learned it.

i agree that most people around me are, essentially, automatons devoid of all sense of individuality and personality.

the difference between us is that i must put a limit to my criticism of them. i do not dare to look at people as if they were less than human beings.

i forgive and understand their limitations, as i know they have to endure mine.

Quote :

That too...
The secret:
Years and years of struggle, pain and suffering....concluding in a sense of comfortable survival.

See how wonderer squirms at the slightest hint of reality?
He fights agaisnt what threatens his delusions. He slanders me, trying to find insulting motives, so as to dismiss them.
He thinks an insult is automatically false or hateful.

My frustration?
The limitations to my will; my forced submission to rules and social conformity; being affected by mindless animals, with no idea what or why they a redoing...voting and affecting me in that way; holding positions of power over me, because they are so thoughtless and weak...Not being able to completely escape their stupidity.

But I'm working on it.

this is a frustration you'll never really overcome, for obvious reasons

do you want to work on it? learn to accept the inevitability of it. Remember that intelligence and wisdom are only conceivable in a world of utter stupidity.

the wise men are always exceptions, and should be glad for that.

Quote :

I already have.

This is not a hard case to figure out, nor is it my first.

I don't purposefully seek attention, i just attract it naturally.

maybe it is your 'nasty' attitude. people like to submit to the norms and to the herdish patterns in their 'normal' everyday lives, but whenever they have a chance (for instance, when they're posting under a false nick on a web board) they want and search what goes against their narrow common sense

a weird curiosity.

Quote :

I don't care to make friends or find female companionship, yet it comes to me.
The less I care the more it comes to me.

I'm not intentionally controversial, I just have opinions that happen to be contrary to current popular myths.

be honest and admit that you love a controversy, Satyr

i see it in the passion you address your opponents...

Quote :

I sit here, sometimes, reading morons saying such ludicrous things or expressing opinions they have not thuoght through and only parrot and I am angered by the fact that I have to defer my will to these retards...I have to live in the products of their stupidity.

I want to shake them awake, tell them how feeble and dumb they are, expose the filth that makes them possible.

i think you should really learn to accept people as they are. no, this is not a manner of saying that you should 'change', whatever, it's just that people have differences, and the more we learn to accept them the more we learn how to deal with them...

nothwithstanding, you could simply ignore stupidity, like you do with Mcmiserable'

Quote :

Do you think nature is just?
No, so imagine the duplicity of telling genetic failures that they matter or that they too are equal to everyone else.

Natural selection directly contradicts this preposterous human invention.

Nature is the sum of all previous nurturing...it cannot be corrected in a single lifetime!!!
Has monogamy altered the natural, genetic propensity to copulate with as many as possible?

NO!!!!
Even in Islamic states, under the penalty of death, adultery persists!!!
Why?
Because you cannot train out natural drives in a few generations. Evolution works at a slower pace than that.

i know it, and i never claimed nature was 'just'. if i had done that, i'd be a complete idiot.

there are some details, however, that already have changed. there are other factors in the game now.

Quote :

I don't care to have followers.
they disgust me and bore me to tears.

i know.

Quote :

No, but you seek a father figure. That much is clear.

i don't know about that, though.

you would have to make a complete analysis of my psyche in order to be sure of that.

Quote :

Oh now, dear boy, you know nobody is anyone's equal...that this is an agreement of pretense meant to avoid conflict.

Do you know this?
Being similar, does not make one equal.
I am similar to an ape.

ok, we're not 'equal', we're only 'similar' then. can't you see how slight the difference is?

Quote :

Then you understood Nietzsche, at least, better than most...notably better than Sauwelios who still sniffs his mentors asshole and and sips from his urine directly through his cock.

This is an abomination!!!
The anti-Christ being made into an idol.

Nietzscheanism is the most pathetic thing i know, and i do think Nietzsche would despise 'Nietzscheans' to death. he himself advised that he only admired men who were capable of overcoming themselves and their need to idolize

and Nietzsche shared this view with Cioran, for instance.

Quote :

just as long as this help does not become addictive...like it has for Dunamis and his addiction to Spinoza and Sauwelios and his addiction to Nietzsche.

This is not philosophy...this is an obsession with another's philosophy.

A thinker must engage reality directly, honestly, and courageously...or else what is the point?
Being mentored is one thing...being dominated is another.

i know, and i agree with you

also, i'm not naive. it's obvious that you could never do this job in my place. whatever i receive from you might be useful to me one way or another.

Quote :

Nope...you are on the right track.

ha!

i always knew it

Drone
Not given up I see......

Drone wrote:

good, now we have gone back to the way we were talking at ILP. that's nice.

My humoring you will begin shortly.

Quote :

tell me, if you will, was it just that the motivation for you to become a father?

No, that was the final straw...

Quote :

some years ago, for instance, could you think of that?

Before my father's death...no.
I had no interest in it.

Quote :

you know, i still think i will NEVER be willing to have a son, because I personally think i have nothing to offer him, neither the world. i have often realized that children are generally given birth randomly, without any previous concern for what the new human being actually will be and feel, but merely as a means to satisfy the need of the parents for a baby.

That's because you haven't fully accepted the selfishness of every action.

You have a child for you and how you appreciate life.

Quote :

the saddest thing is that MOST children in this world, given the conditions under which they are given birth and raised, SHOULD never even exist. Obviously that doesn't mean that they should be slaughtered, hated or even judged, according to my view.

This is true.
Wonderer, for instance, should never have been born. he's jsut too dumb to appreciate the fullness of life....suffering included.

Whomever thinks life is pleasant and all happy and nice should not have kids...They, as their kids, are in for a big surprise.

Quote :

the most curious part is that you KNOW that people will always try to approach/refute/deal with you after they are aware of your existence, huh?

Yes, it is inevitable...once the fullness of my mind is unraveled.

Quote :

yes, you DO feel superior to most of us.

And there you are...

Quote :

i agree that most people around me are, essentially, automatons devoid of all sense of individuality and personality.

Why would I not insult them? upon what principle?
Do they not go on-line looking for truth and reality?
do they not pretend to love wisdom to be philo-sophers?

Well, here I am....the wake-up call. The cold shower. Cold brutal, uninhibited reality.

They run, casting aspersions and insults as they go....but then they are drawn back....why?

Quote :

the difference between us is that i must put a limit to my criticism of them. i do not dare to look at people as if they were less than human beings.

But they ARE!!!

You do not dare to see? Look again!!!
Open yuor eyes wide and see them act and speak.

What do you see?
Rational beings...humans?
do you see reason there or blind instinct?

Quote :

i forgive and understand their limitations, as i know they have to endure mine.

What a Christian sentiment. it made me weep.

Quote :

this is a frustration you'll never really overcome, for obvious reasons

do you want to work on it? learn to accept the inevitability of it. Remember that intelligence and wisdom are only conceivable in a world of utter stupidity.

the wise men are always exceptions, and should be glad for that.

I am...I will....I shall.


Wait....then Satyr will wear new clothes.
This is the last hurray!!!

Quote :

maybe it is your 'nasty' attitude. people like to submit to the norms and to the herdish patterns in their 'normal' everyday lives, but whenever they have a chance (for instance, when they're posting under a false nick on a web board) they want and search what goes against their narrow common sense

a weird curiosity.

A rare opportunity to drop the masks.
But some faces are uglier without them, no?

Quote :

be honest and admit that you love a controversy, Satyr

i see it in the passion you address your opponents...

What I love is showing these imbeciles that pretend they know and that they are pure and righteous and happy and honest what they really are.

Quote :

ok, we're not 'equal', we're only 'similar' then. can't you see how slight the difference is?

No, it is slight only in your mind.


A forest of trees of the same kind....similar...none equal...some tall and strong....others small, weak and struggling in the shadow of others.
Similar...not equal.
Variations on a pattern.

Quote :

Nietzscheanism is the most pathetic thing i know, and i do think Nietzsche would despise 'Nietzscheans' to death. he himself advised that he only admired men who were capable of overcoming themselves and their need to idolize

and Nietzsche shared this view with Cioran, for instance.

Cioran, as Heidegger and Sartre were influenced by Nietzsche, as he was influenced by Schopenhauer and, I suspect, Stirner.

You have no idea what power his ideas offer you....you are stuck, as others are with me, on his style and arrogance...on his distasteful truths.

Just because you do not like something does not make it false. In fact it makes it all the more probable.

Satyr wrote:

My humoring you will begin shortly.

your humoring me?

Quote :

I had no interest in it.

tell me more. did you feel the same way i do?

Quote :

That's because you haven't fully accepted the selfishness of every action.

You have a child for you and how you appreciate life.

again then i see no reason whatsoever to be a father.

Quote :

This is true.
Wonderer, for instance, should never have been born. he's jsut too dumb to appreciate the fullness of life....suffering included.

Whomever thinks life is pleasant and all happy and nice should not have kids...They, as their kids, are in for a big surprise.

i don't go out telling people 'don't have children', i'm not that stupid.

however, i do believe much harm would be avoided if people had children only when they can offer something to them.

Quote :

Why would I not insult them? upon what principle?
Do they not go on-line looking for truth and reality?
do they not pretend to love wisdom to be philo-sophers?

Well, here I am....the wake-up call. The cold shower. Cold brutal, uninhibited reality.

They run, casting aspersions and insults as they go....but then they are drawn back....why?

that's a weird choice of yours, Satyr

you feel pleasure when you expose people their nothingness and their misery. even though i cannot prove to you that this is 'morally' wrong, i do not really see the use of such tactics. i do not feel any pleasure by offending/hurting others.

call me 'sensitive' if you will.

Quote :

But they ARE!!!

You do not dare to see? Look again!!!
Open yuor eyes wide and see them act and speak.

What do you see?
Rational beings...humans?
do you see reason there or blind instinct?

i TRY TO BELIEVE that i see human beings, and most of the time i'm convinced of this

any other vision is too much for me. among these folks you describe as 'less than human beings' are many people that i like, for instance

even my mother would be there...

Quote :

What a Christian sentiment. it made me weep.

don't laugh, that's serious

do you remember Schopenhauer's ethic still?

Quote :

I am...I will....I shall.


Wait....then Satyr will wear new clothes.
This is the last hurray!!!

remain exactly as you are, you fool

what is there to change?

Quote :

A rare opportunity to drop the masks.
But some faces are uglier without them, no?

this online experience is really interesting, for many reasons

i have always felt protected by this anonymity, so i always tend to speak here things i wouldn't or couldn't say in the 'real world'...

Quote :

What I love is showing these imbeciles that pretend they know and that they are pure and righteous and happy and honest what they really are.

but you never really convince them of this

and the game goes on, and on...

Quote :

No, it is slight only in your mind.


A forest of trees of the same kind....similar...none equal...some tall and strong....others small, weak and struggling in the shadow of others.
Similar...not equal.
Variations on a pattern.

yet all trees need water, air and nutrients...

Quote :

Nietzscheanism is the most pathetic thing i know, and i do think Nietzsche would despise 'Nietzscheans' to death. he himself advised that he only admired men who were capable of overcoming themselves and their need to idolize
Cioran, for instance.[/quote
and Nietzsche shared this view with ]Cioran, as Heidegger and Sartre were influenced by Nietzsche, as he was influenced by Schopenhauer and, I suspect, Stirner.

You have no idea what power his ideas offer you....you are stuck, as others are with me, on his style and arrogance...on his distasteful truths.

Just because you do not like something does not make it false. In fact it makes it all the more probable.

When and where have i told you that i dislike Nietzsche?

in fact, he's one of my favorite authors/thinkers.

i just disagree with some of his ideas.

he was just a man like me, after all

maryshelley wrote:

Drone
Not given up I see......

what? give up Satyr?

should i give up life first?

Drone wrote:

tell me more. did you feel the same way i do?

How do you feel?

For me it began with a romantic idealism which was quickly destroyed by cold reality.

In my need to find out what had gone wrong or why I had been so wrong....I discovered the knowledge made me lose interest in it.

I knew too much, saw too much, to be able to abandon myself to the illusion, which all sexual iteration demands.

Then I became coldly strategic and a hypocrite.
It worked.

Quote :

again then i see no reason whatsoever to be a father.

That's because you are still an idealist.

Quote :

that's a weird choice of yours, Satyr

you feel pleasure when you expose people their nothingness and their misery. even though i cannot prove to you that this is 'morally' wrong, i do not really see the use of such tactics. i do not feel any pleasure by offending/hurting others.

call me 'sensitive' if you will.

Those you feel for are too retarded to offer you the same in return.

Quote :

i TRY TO BELIEVE that i see human beings, and most of the time i'm convinced of this

any other vision is too much for me. among these folks you describe as 'less than human beings' are many people that i like, for instance

even my mother would be there...

And?

Emotion is not a rational argument for or against anything.

Quote :

don't laugh, that's serious

do you remember Schopenhauer's ethic still?

Yes.

Quote :

but you never really convince them of this

and the game goes on, and on...

convincing them is not my goal....it is, in fact, impossible.

You cannot convince another of what they are incapable of understanding or, if they do understand parts of it, are incapable of accepting because it goes against their core beliefs and self-interests.
They would go mad!!!

I actually have seen Christians, for instance, admit that without God, the possibility of Him, they could not live.

Now, that is fucked up.

Quote :

yet all trees need water, air and nutrients...

And?

Quote :

When and where have i told you that i dislike Nietzsche?

Didn't you just express a distaste for him?

Quote :

in fact, he's one of my favorite authors/thinkers.

i just disagree with some of his ideas.

he was just a man like me, after all

A man with a rare mind.

"Step inside love and sit here at my table. Look here I have a crystal ball that can predict your future for only £5. Look.... what do you see?"

"Hey, all I see is a distorted reflection of myself, you charlatan!"

"It is your eyes that are flawed. When I peer into the ball I see only riches and riches I have indeed."

Satyr wrote:

How do you feel?

i don't feel like being a father, because i don't accept the egoism of the act

i try to imagine my son feeling as lost in this world as i have always felt, and i'm too sensitive to submit a defenseless child to this.

it's not that i think ALL people should act the same way. i guess this feeling comes from my own frustrated experiences in life.

maybe i don't want to be to him what my father was to me: an example of what should be avoided.

Quote :

For me it began with a romantic idealism which was quickly destroyed by cold reality.

In my need to find out what had gone wrong or why I had been so wrong....I discovered the knowledge made me lose interest in it.

I knew too much, saw too much, to be able to abandon myself to the illusion, which all sexual iteration demands.

Then I became coldly strategic and a hypocrite.
It worked.

i don't know if you'll feel like answering this, Satyr, but please tell me, have you ever had some difficulty with women, i mean, in your relationship with them?

sometimes i feel just so disgusted about my hypocrisy towards them, when i see the way they react to me, apparently not understanding what i really want from them...

i'm talking about the girls with whom i want just sex, not the ones i could or would 'love' in a romantic sense...

Quote :

That's because you are still an idealist.

in which sense, exactly?

Quote :

Those you feel for are too retarded to offer you the same in return.

but why should they offer me something?

your opponents at ILP, for instance, offered what to you?

Quote :

And?

Emotion is not a rational argument for or against anything.

i know, but that was just why i asked you if you would like to see your son described as a 'pile of shit'.

we're partially emotional too, and we'll surrender to emotion whenever reason becomes too harsh.

Quote :

Yes.

that's that. i think i simply sympathize with the situation of my fellow men. it's not that i encourage or admire it.

Quote :

convincing them is not my goal....it is, in fact, impossible.

You cannot convince another of what they are incapable of understanding or, if they do understand parts of it, are incapable of accepting because it goes against their core beliefs and self-interests.
They would go mad!!!

I actually have seen Christians, for instance, admit that without God, the possibility of Him, they could not live.

Now, that is fucked up.

but you see then the utter pointlessness of such 'conflicts', as Wonderer says?

a funny way of wasting time?

Quote :

And?

their inherent state of dependence makes thm all similar, in a certain manner

Quote :

Didn't you just express a distaste for him?

i don't like some of his ideas. sometimes he was just too crude to my tastes. ok, i know he was just like you, he wanted to portray reality as it is, but sometimes i think he lost something in sensitivity, in comparison to Schopenhauer or Cioran, or even Camus, for instance.

Quote :

A man with a rare mind.

agreed. but when we idealize him (ok, i know you don't do that, but Impious, for instance, does) we become what he despised the most

maryshelley wrote:

"Step inside love and sit here at my table. Look here I have a crystal ball that can predict your future for only £5. Look.... what do you see?"

"Hey, all I see is a distorted reflection of myself, you charlatan!"

"It is your eyes that are flawed. When I peer into the ball I see only riches and riches I have indeed."

i don't know what you're trying to say, but i have repeatedly said to Satyr that his opinions on me will NEVER be completely accurate.

i'm just trying to have a conversation with him, nothing more, nothing less.

Drone wrote:

i don't know if you'll feel like answering this, Satyr, but please tell me, have you ever had some difficulty with women, i mean, in your relationship with them?

sometimes i feel just so disgusted about my hypocrisy towards them, when i see the way they react to me, apparently not understanding what i really want from them...

i'm talking about the girls with whom i want just sex, not the ones i could or would 'love' in a romantic sense...

What, do you perceive, is the difference between the two? Would love equate to 'have a baby with' because if it does you may be onto something. Two different drives (sex and reproduction)?

there's a difference between what we know sex to be and how it's portrayed to us by our societies.

women are essentially emotional and romantic even today, they're rarely as crude as men when it comes to this 'issue'. i have never met a single member of your gender who did not harbour some illusion about sexual pleasure and 'love'...

i have so far lied to all the women i ever met...

How many women have you met.....and might at least some of them know you are lying and are just keeping up the pretense for the 'sake' of it? Presumably they all 'know' now, anyway?

I don't think many men like crudity in a woman if you're honest about it. Crudity about such matters tends to get women labelled as something. Those bitches.

maryshelley wrote:

How many women have you met.....and might at least some of them know you are lying and are just keeping up the pretense for the 'sake' of it? Presumably they all 'know' now, anyway?

I don't think many men like crudity in a woman if you're honest about it. Crudity about such matters tends to get women labelled as something. Those bitches.

i have met some women indeed, what are you trying to insinuate?

you're right that we don't like crudity in women, and vulgarity generally doesn't please me that much (though sometimes all i need is to find a genuine bitch with whom i can find some real pleasure), but i was talking here about your perspective, not mine.

have you ever noticed that even prostitutes tend to be somewhat 'romantic' about their condition? they are even ashamed of their profession, generally.

Drone wrote:

i don't feel like being a father, because i don't accept the egoism of the act

Ah, Cioran!

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i try to imagine my son feeling as lost in this world as i have always felt, and i'm too sensitive to submit a defenseless child to this.

Bu then the wonderful sensation of discovery when one is found.

I've never felt lost...I've felt different.

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it's not that i think ALL people should act the same way. i guess this feeling comes from my own frustrated experiences in life.

But they do act the same.
Civilization. Forced conformity to a rule of conduct.
Civility.
Enforced respect.

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maybe i don't want to be to him what my father was to me: an example of what should be avoided.

Then you have yet to overcome him and forgive him....I did so while he was still alive.

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i don't know if you'll feel like answering this, Satyr, but please tell me, have you ever had some difficulty with women, i mean, in your relationship with them?

Hasn't every boy?

For me it was more difficult being an only child.

But slowly my mind opened up possibilities to me.
I matured and began to see...details.
It all began to make sense to me....they began to make sense.
Doesn't mean I liked what I saw, only that I understood.

I began being indifferent, as all understanding is a form of overcoming.

Ironically, this turned into the game that it was.

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sometimes i feel just so disgusted about my hypocrisy towards them, when i see the way they react to me, apparently not understanding what i really want from them...

But many of them DO understand what you want from them.
Women intuit things. The get things viscerally.
They may not be able to tell you what over why, like a man can, but they sense things.

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i'm talking about the girls with whom i want just sex, not the ones i could or would 'love' in a romantic sense...

Isn't it all different types of lust?

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in which sense, exactly?

In that you believe that actions must be purified from self....made self-less, erase the ego from them...

This is an act of deferment.
It is sometimes sensed as a broadening of self...an unburdening.
A transcendental experience associated with God or spirit and all that.

It is the abstraction of love or self or the idea of Man as spirit or deity. The ideal man.
So, love or any action is purified of ego, of self, because children are taught that these are vile things.

Empathy automatically means compassion.
Love, automatically mean selfless love...."authentic" love. Not love as my love, the expression, the need of I, but an abstracted, clean selfless, egoless love. Not mine at all...a right....or my duty to the ideal.

This is why it fails. It is delusional, self-hypocritical.

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but why should they offer me something?

Because all interactions are exchanges - trades.

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your opponents at ILP, for instance, offered what to you?

An insight into the mediocre mind, uninhibited by many of the usual social conventions.
I, sometimes, had to egg them on....but my views, on their own, riled many of them up.

Look at wonderer.
Isn't it wonderfully transparent?
A defensive tactic, pretending attack.

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i know, but that was just why i asked you if you would like to see your son described as a 'pile of shit'.

If he is then I'll do it my self.

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we're partially emotional too, and we'll surrender to emotion whenever reason becomes too harsh.

That is not a problem for me.
I separate my desires, my hopes, from my insights into reality.

In fact if these insights are too good to be true, I am more skeptical about them.

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that's that. i think i simply sympathize with the situation of my fellow men. it's not that i encourage or admire it.

And I do not consider all men my fellows.

I sympathize with the plight of a mountain goat being attacked by wolves...And?

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but you see then the utter pointlessness of such 'conflicts', as Wonderer says?

a funny way of wasting time?

All conflict has a benefit.
It is more honest.

I have heard a quote that states that something like this:
"I only know a man when I have fought him."

But not all fights are equally beneficial to both sides.
For example fighting a little boy, like wonderer, doesn't really give me anything in return.
Yeah, the little taunts, declarations of victory, assumptions that he provided a challenge, are a bit annoying, but this did nothing towards me sharpening my opinions.

My opinions were never dealt with, except by declaring them "wrong" or whatever.
There was no challenge on the topic. There was only a challenge on my quality, my state of mind, my social and mental well-being...using insinuations....like stabbing in the dark and listening for a reaction to see if you hit anything.

I do it my self sometimes.

It's like Mcmiserable and all his repeated "Wrong!!!!" or "You are an impostor" and "Life is miserable and anyone who denies this is lying!".
These are not arguments on a topic nor are they counter-argument to another's positions.

The idea that life is need is not new, nor is the idea that sheltering results in weakness.
And you cannot contradict them by implying a motive behind these positions, especially when they are based on common experiences of reality.

We all feel need....we all see that sitting on our ass, just eating makes us soft...or that the absence of a challenge, a stresser, a weight, leads to inactivity and so stagnation and so softness.

We all know that without need, no action is necessary - path-of-least-resistance.

We all understand that life is an exception in the universe, tenuously held onto, within unique, ideal conditions, such as on Earth, whereas lifelessness is the rule.

We all understand how light, heat, and anything that we consider an exception is associated with the human notion of positivity, while the opposite with negativity. We consider it positive because it stands in contradiction to entropy - fragmentation. As phenomena that aid us resist our own decay/death.

We all feel fear, to varying degrees, but we do not all react the same to it.

We all understand that it is a survival mechanism and that whomever claims to not feel it is lying, grandstanding or suffering from some mental dysfunction.

We all understand that need is constant, in that we are constantly maintaining ourselves, like fire is constantly produced when energy is released, and heat, as well.

Some just cannot accept them.
These ideas are too threatening to their sense of self.

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their inherent state of dependence makes thm all similar, in a certain manner

Yes, because we all depend on the same thing, the same system, and so we must abide by its rules, its rule.

This creates uniformity, to varying degrees.

In my essay The Feminization of Mankind....which I am presently, once more, rewriting...I describe a particular form of uniformity, produced by social dependence.

Most individuals are not as unique and difficult to figure out as they would like to think.
Why?

Because most have accepted this rule, these rules, abide by them, to the extent that most cannot even think outside of them, and so they behave and think is uniform ways....this manifests in slight differentiations where the will, reacts differently to this dominating external will, but resistance is slowly eradicated...we call this maturing.

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i don't like some of his ideas. sometimes he was just too crude to my tastes. ok, i know he was just like you, he wanted to portray reality as it is, but sometimes i think he lost something in sensitivity, in comparison to Schopenhauer or Cioran, or even Camus, for instance.

Schopenhauer was sensitive?

Shit, that dude was even more straightforward.

Nietzsche used poetics to mask a lot of the crudeness in his insights.

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agreed. but when we idealize him (ok, i know you don't do that, but Impious, for instance, does) we become what he despised the most

Exactly...and Sauwelios.

it's the same as when modern day Christian Churches contradict the message of Jesus, which was a personal, un-institutionalized relationship with the divine.
And here they are with the biggest institutions of all.

In the case of Nietzsche, he even predicted this would happen with his own views, and when he spoke he spoke over those that would become his followers and idolize him.

He left hints...like urging those that truly understood him to do violence to his ideas.

maryshelley wrote:

Drone wrote:

i don't know if you'll feel like answering this, Satyr, but please tell me, have you ever had some difficulty with women, i mean, in your relationship with them?

sometimes i feel just so disgusted about my hypocrisy towards them, when i see the way they react to me, apparently not understanding what i really want from them...

i'm talking about the girls with whom i want just sex, not the ones i could or would 'love' in a romantic sense...

What, do you perceive, is the difference between the two? Would love equate to 'have a baby with' because if it does you may be onto something. Two different drives (sex and reproduction)?

What?!!!!


Oh dear.

Because man has become conscious and managed to technologically separate sex from reproduction and just because sex evolved to also play social roles, does not negate the original reason sex evolved at all...REPRODUCTION!!!!

A reaction to mortality.

The pleasure in it, the physical mechanisms, were only meant to ensure that organisms would pursue copulation, sometimes at their own risk.

Drone wrote:

maryshelley wrote:

How many women have you met.....and might at least some of them know you are lying and are just keeping up the pretense for the 'sake' of it? Presumably they all 'know' now, anyway?

I don't think many men like crudity in a woman if you're honest about it. Crudity about such matters tends to get women labelled as something. Those bitches.

i have met some women indeed, what are you trying to insinuate?

you're right that we don't like crudity in women, and vulgarity generally doesn't please me that much (though sometimes all i need is to find a genuine bitch with whom i can find some real pleasure), but i was talking here about your perspective, not mine.

have you ever noticed that even prostitutes tend to be somewhat 'romantic' about their condition? they are even ashamed of their profession, generally.

I am reminding you not to fall in the old philosophical thought trap of assuming there are no black swans as all those you've ever witnessed are white.

I wonder why a 'genuine bitch' gives you real pleasure and a not-so-genuine one doesn't. You lying stud, you.

As for prostitutes. How would you or I know what they think? If I were to speculate though I'm not sure they are romantics although they may 'dress it up' for your sake....

Satyr wrote:

maryshelley wrote:

Drone wrote:

i don't know if you'll feel like answering this, Satyr, but please tell me, have you ever had some difficulty with women, i mean, in your relationship with them?

sometimes i feel just so disgusted about my hypocrisy towards them, when i see the way they react to me, apparently not understanding what i really want from them...

i'm talking about the girls with whom i want just sex, not the ones i could or would 'love' in a romantic sense...

What, do you perceive, is the difference between the two? Would love equate to 'have a baby with' because if it does you may be onto something. Two different drives (sex and reproduction)?

What?!!!!


Oh dear.

Because man has become conscious and managed to technologically separate sex from reproduction and just because sex evolved to also play social roles, does not negate the original reason sex evolved at all...REPRODUCTION!!!!

A reaction to mortality.

The pleasure in it, the physical mechanisms, were only meant to ensure that organisms would pursue copulation, sometimes at their own risk.

oh dear indeed.
What you fuck you don't necessarily want to procreate with, now do you?

maryshelley wrote:

Drone wrote:

maryshelley wrote:

How many women have you met.....and might at least some of them know you are lying and are just keeping up the pretense for the 'sake' of it? Presumably they all 'know' now, anyway?

I don't think many men like crudity in a woman if you're honest about it. Crudity about such matters tends to get women labelled as something. Those bitches.

i have met some women indeed, what are you trying to insinuate?

you're right that we don't like crudity in women, and vulgarity generally doesn't please me that much (though sometimes all i need is to find a genuine bitch with whom i can find some real pleasure), but i was talking here about your perspective, not mine.

have you ever noticed that even prostitutes tend to be somewhat 'romantic' about their condition? they are even ashamed of their profession, generally.

I am reminding you not to fall in the old philosophical thought trap of assuming there are no black swans as all those you've ever witnessed are white.

I wonder why a 'genuine bitch' gives you real pleasure and a not-so-genuine one doesn't. You lying stud, you.

As for prostitutes. How would you or I know what they think? If I were to speculate though I'm not sure they are romantics although they may 'dress it up' for your sake....

And you are falling into the emotional trap of wanting to insinuate that you, even though you may agree with much that has been said about women, stand as an exception to the rule.


In fact, when discussing anything, one discusses the rule, before establishing why exceptions to it occur.

It makes the exceptions all the more valuable.
That is why I am an elitist.