Satyr, my foe, my brother, my equal...

...are you ready for this?

hmm, then 'the man' decided to ignore my challenge...

good for you, Satyr. you have just avoided the biggest defeat of your miserable 'life'...

a coward. in the end, that's what you are.

The challenge was too formidable.

The reasoning too brilliant.

The arguments too powerful.

The bouncing ball too intimidating.


What's the subject again?
Was there one?

Ah, yes, my imminent defeat...


Another man-child enters the rink and with a declaration wins the title of giant-killer - Satyr's bane..

Look, even wonderer, a pot-smoking, adolescent, infant can point out the many holes in my reasoning.
I'm still looking for where he did so...
But when you don't really understand what is being said, it is easy to find contradictions in your own understanding, especially when they satisfy such a desire to be taken seriously.



Defeated....AGAIN!!!
What is that...the tenth time?
Even MagnetMan obliterated my reasoning in his deep exposes.

There was Ade, Unoriginal, MagnetMan, Drone, Mcmiserable, Britney Smears, Ned Flanders....did I miss anyone?
Some, of course, were aliases for the same.

But who can trick, with such petty tactics, those intellectual giants?
They saw right through my charade....perceived my inner weakness and toyed with me relentlessly.

I admit, I was wrong about everything.
Feminization of Man...paaaalease.
And my metaphysical positions? What crap was that?

Pile of shit, really.

How did I think I would fool these brilliant internet mnids with so much flimsy reasoning and desperate ploys to gain attention?
They know too much; they are too smart; they've read books and mommy taught them well.

I'll try to avoid the shame by claiming that I didn't really mean any of it.
A joke, a satyr's play...but...I shall not.


I must learn to live with it.
I must.

I can.

I...will.

----------------------


My biggest mistake?
Entering into serious discussions with stunted minds, playing little adolescent, feminine, games, trying desperately to comfort themselves and avoid the world, as it is.


In the end a Pyrrhic victory, it is...for those that didn't really comprehend my positions and chose only to avenge themselves against what little they did.
The attempts at manipulation and imitation were particularly entertaining.

My birthday is coming up and with it a symbolic new birth....
The Wanderer became the Satyr and now the Satyr must change...not his name, but his direction, how he spends his time, his attitude...his persona.


I will be around but not as much.
The embarrassment will grind at me.

Be happy to know that I shall carry the shame to my grave.

Your vengeance is complete, the entertainment value, for you all, worth it, I hope, and now back to your real,, healthy lives....which I can never, ever have for my self.

ha, I knew that you wouldn't resist replying to this topic at least once...

i was, obviously, just trying to attract your attention. I haven't really defeated you, or refuted your assessments on me...so far.

(btw, you should already know who i am by now, that should be obvious.)

let me explain what's the reason of this 'challenge': i want to test you. Or rather, I want to test myself against you. forget about all the bullshit that i may have thrown at you by now, i was just playing an act. In fact, it's time you know that i do think you are by far the most interesting persona(lity) i ever found in my life. There is something about you and your overall approach to other people that simply intrigues me. No, i don't really think it's all a farce. but the fact is: i don't know what it is. It's fairly easy to see that you respect yourself and you don't think respect is something that must be given, but gained, achieved, but the mystery of your need to interact with these folks you 'despise' so much remains. As hard to understand as your absurd level of aggressivity. As I said, a man who is 'right' is simply right. He needn't resort to slander or aggressivity to be 'right', reason is with him one way or another. given that, you probably feel pleasure when you are humiliating others. it's some sort of coping mechanism. And coping mechanisms are nothing but signals of our inherent weakness...

some things may just point out that there is NOTHING behind this persona(lity) you've created for you. However, it's probable that this is not true. You do get hurt when you are offended by other people, for instance. You did get offended for having been banned twice from ILP while 'Mcmiserable' still has the 'privilege' of posting there. In other words, we can easily see that there is a flesh and blood man behind this nick and all this sarcasm. the question is: who is this man? why does he do the things he do?

like i did before, I wish this 'challenge' would be useful to us both. we could perfectly avoid ad hominens, for instance. we could try to talk like the two adult human beings that we are, about anything that you may think i don't know or need to know, etc...

so what say you?

Satyr wrote:

There was Ade, Unoriginal, MagnetMan, Drone, Mcmiserable, Britney Smears, Ned Flanders....did I miss anyone?
Some, of course, were aliases for the same.

But who can trick, with such petty tactics, those intellectual giants?
They saw right through my charade....perceived my inner weakness and toyed with me relentlessly.

Satyr is not only a desperately-lonely-creature; he is also a sad & pathetic one.

The reason that he drops another persons username is because he can only think himself successful/superior in comparison with another view. He depends on this to give himself confidence. However, what he fails to realize is when his own thoughts are exceeded. Notice that he claims that they "were aliases for the same". This precludes the fact, and even proves that Satyr's mentality is flawed. Yes, even Satyr has weaknesses which can be found & exploited. The most apparent one is his fear, paraphrased "everybody is out to get me". But he contradicts himself. If everybody is so stupid, and Satyr is so smart, then should he not be able to effortlessly-defend himself using reason? You would assume so, but his very posts & responses indicate otherwise. What he acknowledges, many times, is his undeniable need to assault those who either can or cannot accept/understand his feminization of man thesis. What does this assault represent other than a paranoid-delusional mind? It is a safe bet to make that the only thing Satyr cares about is Satyr, along with his blood relations, which is understandable of course. The primary thing that this autistic man does not realize is where & when his own reasoning fails him. If he were as true/strong/superior as he purports to be, then he would feel no threat from the feminized animals that surround him. But he does feel threatened. He has admitted this fact dozens of times. This is his weakness.

If Satyr were as clever as he would like others to believe, then he would be able to set apart and clearly-differentiate who-is-who on an internet forum. You would believe that should be no difficult task for him, but he cannot. This demonstrates that his mental capability fails him from differentiating who is saying what, where & when. Obviously-then, he feels that anybody who replies to him is One-and-the-Same. Furthermore, if his reasoning is directly-assaulted, then he steps up his predictable rhetoric of slander and personal insult. This exposes another fact that Satyr only cares for his own metaphysical beliefs & theses, even though they may be wrong, and probably are. For example, one easy contradiction to point-out is how, paraphrased, "Everything is in flux, flow, change." If this were true, then how would a person even be able to observe this fact without a reference point? In other words, there can be no 'flux', 'flow', 'change', without 'stillness', 'points', 'permanence'. But consistency is not something Satyr believes in. And this is a simple matter of self-responsibility. If his mind is "forever changing", then he never has to take responsibility for what he does/says/think. Instead, he can merely-insult and attempt to demean a person who attacks him on this point.

Therefore, Satyr, will continue to drop my name insofar as he feels threatened by me & my presence. He will retreat from my threads, like a coward, and make declarations against me from afar, where he feels safe & protected. However, as long as he calls my name, then I shall find him and point him out for the coward he truly-is. For example, this man will imply & insinuate, a 'feminine' tactic mind you, that others are wrong and he is right. For example, if Sex is not Rape or if a Wheel has no Center, then these facts should be very easy to point-out, prove, and display to even a child. Yet, he cannot prove his point when he meets a resistance greater than his own. What does he do? -- as expected, he name-drops, insults, insinuates, and then runs away, just like the people he will accuse of failing to understand his philosophies. And this is no irony. Satyr is guilty of the same thing he accuses of others. Though, few people can point this out and expose him for what he is: all too human. Once you climb past his insults and self-degradation, then you will find that his reasoning is actually far-and-few between. Yes, he is correct concerning a great deal of things. And no, he is incorrect concerning a particularly-few other things. But don't point this out to him, because his mind is heavily-invested in his world view. It is easier for him that other people are 'inferior' and 'stupid' compared to him; it prevents him from being weak, wrong, and stupid, which he easily-can be (and is).

There can be no doubt that Satyr is intentionally-provokative. He has to be in order to catch people's attention. If he does not catch your attention, then he is just as boring & plain as the next man. His feminization of man thesis may be correct; it may be incorrect. But what does it matter either way when nobody reads about it and ponders the thought? He becomes just-another ephilosopher tool. In order to maintain his status, he must continue to display the same tactics & tricks that originally-helped him to prove his point: men are becoming feminized. Okay, accept that ... but then what happens next? -- Nothing. Satyr lives & breathes this material; his personal life is heavily-invested in it. After that, he really has nothing to say except fancy and very, very repetitive insults. He apparently-has nothing else to offer the world. So, who knows? -- perhaps Satyr is only good for his one thesis and he has nothing else to offer the world surrounding him. This is where he fails & falters; he will fade away from existence as he specifically-indicates in this thread. The simple fact is, he has nothing else to say. He retreats into the shadows, the wilderness from whence he came. He has no more use/utility to the Other. And he has confirmed a limited amount of what he originally-set out to prove.

And that can only be true if his thesis is both 1) accepted and 2) overcome.

He needs an Other to do this for him.

Go figure...

shit man, you have a point there, but I'd like this to be only between me and Satyr

that is, if he really is going to continue this 'conversation'...

Drone wrote:

shit man, you have a point there, but I'd like this to be only between me and Satyr

that is, if he really is going to continue this 'conversation'...

Okay then, that is fine.

I was summoned by my name; I will leave it to you.

Drone wrote:

ha, I knew that you wouldn't resist replying to this topic at least once...

i was, obviously, just trying to attract your attention. I haven't really defeated you, or refuted your assessments on me...so far.

(btw, you should already know who i am by now, that should be obvious.)

let me explain what's the reason of this 'challenge': i want to test you. Or rather, I want to test myself against you. forget about all the bullshit that i may have thrown at you by now, i was just playing an act. In fact, it's time you know that i do think you are by far the most interesting persona(lity) i ever found in my life. There is something about you and your overall approach to other people that simply intrigues me. No, i don't really think it's all a farce. but the fact is: i don't know what it is. It's fairly easy to see that you respect yourself and you don't think respect is something that must be given, but gained, achieved, but the mystery of your need to interact with these folks you 'despise' so much remains. As hard to understand as your absurd level of aggressivity. As I said, a man who is 'right' is simply right. He needn't resort to slander or aggressivity to be 'right', reason is with him one way or another. given that, you probably feel pleasure when you are humiliating others. it's some sort of coping mechanism. And coping mechanisms are nothing but signals of our inherent weakness...

some things may just point out that there is NOTHING behind this persona(lity) you've created for you. However, it's probable that this is not true. You do get hurt when you are offended by other people, for instance. You did get offended for having been banned twice from ILP while 'Mcmiserable' still has the 'privilege' of posting there. In other words, we can easily see that there is a flesh and blood man behind this nick and all this sarcasm. the question is: who is this man? why does he do the things he do?

like i did before, I wish this 'challenge' would be useful to us both. we could perfectly avoid ad hominens, for instance. we could try to talk like the two adult human beings that we are, about anything that you may think i don't know or need to know, etc...

so what say you?

And all that you've said, retard, was painfully obvious. You didn't even have to admit it.

The only thing left to determine was if you were, even, aware of it or not.

The reasons why I interact with imbeciles was already explained...but you seem to fail to accept it or understand it.
Who cares, really?


My complete self, by the way, is reserved for those I trust...and trust is something I give out even more carefully than the word 'love' or 'friend'.

Amongst your kind, both concepts, seem to have no value at all, since they are given off so thoughtlessly.
Good luck with that.

Your latest admittance points to an honesty, which your previous posts lacked.

Treat me like I'm an idiot , who does not see through your little childish games, and I will respond in kind.
No more games.
I am done with them.
I come here for clarity, not to repeat the same old bullshit you people call civility and civilization.

For instance look at this little quote by unreasonable, who so desperately clings to my weathered raincoat:

Quote :

This exposes another fact that Satyr only cares for his own metaphysical beliefs & theses, even though they may be wrong, and probably are. For example, one easy contradiction to point-out is how, paraphrased, "Everything is in flux, flow, change." If this were true, then how would a person even be able to observe this fact without a reference point?

An admittance of an inability to comprehend anything I've written, even though this point, in particular, was explained in depth about ten times and in great detail.

In other words I am wasting my time here.
I am talking to individuals that do not have the capability to comprehend, let alone to challenge anything I've said, even though they posses the need, the obsession, the ambition, to do so.

Instead I get adolescent feedback...thinking it is pulling the wool over my eyes, manipulating my ego and my emotions, and one must wonder what is in it for me?
What do I gain?

If not the momentary ego boost and the insight into mediocre human nature, one must consider why one can continue interacting on this level?
Reulnororiginal, certainly proves that desire is not enough and that passion often fails when clarity is absent and self-interest gains the upper hand.

Then the childish fallback point:

Quote :

Therefore, Satyr, will continue to drop my name insofar as he feels threatened by me & my presence. He will retreat from my threads, like a coward, and make declarations against me from afar, where he feels safe & protected.

The childishness of this taunt, is not only contradicted by his behavior, his earlier comments, his adoption of my beliefs, his obsessive behavior, and his flawed regurgitation of them as his own, but more so by his blatant hypocrisy on the matter.


My time is done with children, wanting to sit next to those they admire, but can never bring themselves to fully accept....because they cannot fully comprehend and are too proud to ask for guidance.

My time and my honesty is now dedicated, excursively, to my son.

If, and when, I do post my personal opinions on any matter, I will not be responding to childish taunts and these blatant attempts to attract my attention...I will certainly not respond to anyone thinking of themselves clever enough to manipulate me or trick me - finding some warped sense of self-esteem in this activity alone.

How easy it is to trick someone on-line for a period, when in time, they reveal themselves in so many subtle ways.
Nevertheless, if anyone of you had the pleasure of interacting with me face-to-face, believe me, none of you would be able to be so "clever", as, more than your words, your appearance, your gestures, your tone of voice, your usage of immediate language, your body language, would make you all open books to be read by a one such as me.

Be content with your hidden persona and your faked demeanor, for even here, details have seeped through the facade and I've caught glimpses of the people behind the masks.

You have until February 20th, my birthday, to do what you people do best:

Seek enlightenment, exposing a deep rooted discontentment, while pretending otherwise.
Then, the cut-off point will be met and no more of the old Satyr will be had.
The end is near....believe it or not.

Doubt me of you dare.....we shall see, No?

Then all of you can declare victory and claim you've found contradictions in my theories and that I am seeking attention or validation, or whatever makes you feel adequate and safe and happy, by comparison...

I have four days off until then...then I begin my job again for a full three days...good luck...

After that anyone exhibiting an inability to comprehend or that puts words and ideas in my mouth to make me more dismissible or comprehensible, will be ignored.
Then all of you can declare that I am defeated or self-contradictory, or needy, or whatever you come up with to validate yourselves and explain me away.

I really do not care.

After that date I am done with the charade; I am done with the lies and the duplicity and the little games, and, most importantly, I am done with stupidity.

How long can I read someone saying the wheel has a center or that sex is rape and not be flabbergasted by the sheer stupidity of it?
But this will have to be my new challenge.
Self is a progress not a foregone conclusion.

Enough is enough.

You can continue thinking whatever satisfies you...what, the fuck, do I care?

YOU, live with the consequences of your own stupidity, not I.
I may be affected by stupidity, in numbers, but one-on-one, none of you matter and none of you can measure up.

My only focus, now, is my son.
He'll be brought up to be more than any of you can even imagine.

Good luck.

The only infantile attention I seek now is female attentions...I am Human, all too Human, after all.


But if any of you choose to underestimate my mind, then do so at your own peril.
Otherwise, go back to the mediocrity of your usual surroundings and your Internet friernds - none of which have ever, EVER, been banished, because none of them have ever, EVER, said anything relevant or that goes against popular opinions.

------------------

ros, Buskerud?!!!!

Half of your argument hinges on appeals to 10 dollar words like entropy.

You state that happiness is a myth, then claim to love life. Contradiction?

you decide.

Toy say entropy is the inevitable losing fight against need, discomfort, and disorder, then claim to be content with life. Contradiction?

And if these things are not contradictions, what differs about my claims concerning "loving life" or "being happy" or "being content"?

what is so wholesome about your view of life?

is it simply more logical?

Am i simply irrational?

What truth do i hide from?

what truth are you frustrated with?

wonderer wrote:

Half of your argument hinges on appeals to 10 dollar words like entropy.

Still, words are symbols. Symbols of concepts.
Metaphors.

If you do not comprehend...that is you problem.

Quote :

You state that happiness is a myth, then claim to love life. Contradiction?

you decide.

Your entire world view hinges on the pursuit of happiness...you sacrifice truth and reality to it.

My world view hinges on experiences and with the pursuit of the knowledge/strength to be able to deal with the real and the truth and so to more fully experience life...without having to selectively experience it.

It is unfortunate that you don't understand how you can love something, as it is, because the way it is, is what makes you possible.
Acceptance.

Quote :

Toy say entropy is the inevitable losing fight against need, discomfort, and disorder, then claim to be content with life. Contradiction?

This didn't even make sense and has nothing to do with what I said.

The contradiction is in you and how you react to what I say or what you think I am saying.

If the only way you can be happy is to delude yourself or to remain blind to how the universe is, then is that an argument or a plea?

I think you are exposing your need to remain blind, to selectively percive, so as to rescue the myth of happiness from the jaws of reason.

You are like an obese man who failing to lose weight or not wanting to sacrifice the pleasure and the inebriating, calming effect eating offers him, reinvents fitness, claims that exercise is unneeded suffering, and believes it's a contradiction to seek out this physical stress and then find an increase in pleasure, through it.

Denial does not save you from reality.

I am content because, firstly, I've come to terms with who and what I am....I try to improve my self daily, and, secondly, I accept as necessary the things I cannot change.
If things were different...I would not be here.

I refuse to sugarcoat reality to make it more tasty.
My motive is to see as much of the world and try to understand as much of reality as possible before I die...if I am lucky I may even get to pas on my insights to others.

Your motive is to inebriate yourself.

Quote :

And if these things are not contradictions, what differs about my claims concerning "loving life" or "being happy" or "being content"?

What differs is that you go about it by denying the parts of reality that make you feel bad or threaten your bliss.
You avoid suffering and so you make yourself more vulnerable to it....and your contentment more dependent on others and more tenuously maintained.

A drug addict can claim that the drug makes him happy.

Quote :

what is so wholesome about your view of life?

It's based on facing reality, rather than avoiding it.
Therefore, what contentment comes form it is more stronger because it is the product of endurance, objectivity and honesty.

Quote :

is it simply more logical?

Yes. That too.

Quote :

Am i simply irrational?

Emotionally driven...feminine and so intellectually stunted.

Quote :

What truth do i hide from?

Any truth that confronts your well-being and so threatens you.

Quote :

what truth are you frustrated with?

The truth that I was trapped in a world with no frontiers to escape into and so forced to deal with simple minds, gaining positions of social power and with masses of immature, genetically inferior minds, that affected my life and forced me to make compromises on my principles.

Now, too old and too habituated, I seek to escape into the frontiers of my mind.


I want more freedom to dedicate my time as I please, before it ends.
I want to explore the world and not be trapped within its superficiality.

Satyr wrote:

[And all that you've said, retard, was painfully obvious. You didn't even have to admit it.

The only thing left to determine was if you were, even, aware of it or not.

yes, i have always been aware of that.

but tell me, are you aware that your 'insults' mean nothing to me? If they did, I wouldn't even pay attention to you.

the truth of the matter is, Satyr, you don't know me. you can't see through me. you can recognize that i'm interested in you, because that's obvious, however you can't even explain why I'm interested in you. you can look at me as a stupid Brazilian 'dude' who has nothing whatever to say about anything, but this can only be a very imperfect and biased definition of myself

as you yourself have already adimitted, i'm only 'words on a page' for you. nothing that is truly relevant about me is known by you.

i'm a mystery to you as you're a mystery to me.

Quote :

The reasons why I interact with imbeciles was already explained...but you seem to fail to accept it or understand it.
Who cares, really?

you care. i care. everyone cares.

this interaction must have some importance to you, otherwise you wouldn't waste so much time with 'us imbeciles'. you must learn something with us in the end. you must need to humiliate others as a manner of flattering yourself. you mus protect your self and your persona from your own weaknesses by pointing out the weaknesses of others...

Quote :

My complete self, by the way, is reserved for those I trust...and trust is something I give out even more carefully than the word 'love' or 'friend'.

Amongst your kind, both concepts, seem to have no value at all, since they are given off so thoughtlessly.
Good luck with that.

wrong. these concepts have value to me, and I don't give them 'off' thoughtlessly.

do you even see when i'm being ironic, sarcastic, hilarious?

do you even realize when I'm being serious and when i'm trying to have some fun?

tell me, why do you need your sense of humor, Wanderer?

Quote :

Your latest admittance points to an honesty, which your previous posts lacked.

i know when it's time to be honest.

in fact, i have NEVER really disrespected you. on the other hand, you have disrespected me and 'my kind' a lot of times.

Quote :

Treat me like I'm an idiot , who does not see through your little childish games, and I will respond in kind.
No more games.
I am done with them.
I come here for clarity, not to repeat the same old bullshit you people call civility and civilization.

here's your first flaw.

it's this 'bullshit' we call 'civilization' that allows you to have time to come here 'for clarity'.

you're a product of Western civilization like all of us. you need it and you depend on it. however, you want to be above it.

your challenge is to prove that you are in fact above it, in reality, not just in your mind.

Quote :

In other words I am wasting my time here.

no, you are not.

and you know you're not.

you know that this sort of interaction is important for all of us. we need to communicate. we need to interact with others. we need to test our knowledge with them.

another weakness, another flaw.

Quote :

I am talking to individuals that do not have the capability to comprehend, let alone to challenge anything I've said, even though they posses the need, the obsession, the ambition, to do so.

leave me out of this.

i have never objected your main points, i never really tried to 'refute' them.

that you may think that modern men are 'femininized' is your business, the way you interpret things. I have no particular problem with your personal convictions.

in fact, i do agree with a lot of things you say. That doesn't matter to you though, does it?

Quote :

Instead I get adolescent feedback...thinking it is pulling the wool over my eyes, manipulating my ego and my emotions, and one must wonder what is in it for me?
What do I gain?

If not the momentary ego boost and the insight into mediocre human nature, one must consider why one can continue interacting on this level?

it can prove, for instance, that your emotions are and can be manipulated.

it can show to you a weakness you may want to fight

it can be useful, in other words.

Quote :

The childishness of this taunt, is not only contradicted by his behavior, his earlier comments, his adoption of my beliefs, his obsessive behavior, and his flawed regurgitation of them as his own, but more so by his blatant hypocrisy on the matter.

UR's obsession with you is his business.

Quote :

My time is done with children, wanting to sit next to those they admire, but can never bring themselves to fully accept....because they cannot fully comprehend and are too proud to ask for guidance.

i don't want 'guidance', I'm a free man. I want and love liberty. i have no personal belief, I have no ideal.

i want to interact with you for different reasons, still not understood by me.

maybe i want to see what it would mean for me to be like you: an intellectual giant obliged to reduce himself to a fruitless and endless debate with people who are supposedly beneath his intellect

maybe i need to know why i should care

just like when I was trying to 'discuss' with 'Mcmiserable', and trying to undestand why i was losing my time with him...

Quote :

How easy it is to trick someone on-line for a period, when in time, they reveal themselves in so many subtle ways.
Nevertheless, if anyone of you had the pleasure of interacting with me face-to-face, believe me, none of you would be able to be so "clever", as, more than your words, your appearance, your gestures, your tone of voice, your usage of immediate language, your body language, would make you all open books to be read by a one such as me.

NO!

you're wrong!

none of us is an 'open book' to anyone. Noone I know does really know me. Most people look at me as a fine, smart, balanced guy. nobody ever has realized how utterly depressed, lonely, lost I generally feel...

Quote :

Be content with your hidden persona and your faked demeanor, for even here, details have seeped through the facade and I've caught glimpses of the people behind the masks.

You have until February 20th, my birthday, to do what you people do best:

Seek enlightenment, exposing a deep rooted discontentment, while pretending otherwise.
Then, the cut-off point will be met and no more of the old Satyr will be had.
The end is near....believe it or not.

i'm anxious, i'm really willing to know what this metamorphosis will be

i'm really willing to know if you are really capable of changing

anyway, Satyr exists only on web board...you'll still be around, even if only to show us how your approach changed...

Quote :

Doubt me of you dare.....we shall see, No?

Then all of you can declare victory and claim you've found contradictions in my theories and that I am seeking attention or validation, or whatever makes you feel adequate and safe and happy, by comparison...

you idiot, my 'declaration of victory' was a joke, i have NEVER really thought that I have defeated you or contradicted your points

sarcasm is fun, remember?

Quote :

I have four days off until then...then I begin my job again for a full three days...good luck...

After that anyone exhibiting an inability to comprehend or that puts words and ideas in my mouth to make me more dismissible or comprehensible, will be ignored.
Then all of you can declare that I am defeated or self-contradictory, or needy, or whatever you come up with to validate yourselves and explain me away.

you are self-contradictory sometimes, you are needy all the time.

must I remember why, again?

Quote :

I really do not care.

After that date I am done with the charade; I am done with the lies and the duplicity and the little games, and, most importantly, I am done with stupidity.

How long can I read someone saying the wheel has a center or that sex is rape and not be flabbergasted by the sheer stupidity of it?
But this will have to be my new challenge.
Self is a progress not a foregone conclusion.

right! agreed. stupidity really gets on my nerves too.

however, what's the difference between what you dislike and what you find stupid?

Quote :

Enough is enough.

You can continue thinking whatever satisfies you...what, the fuck, do I care?

YOU, live with the consequences of your own stupidity, not I.
I may be affected by stupidity, in numbers, but one-on-one, none of you matter and none of you can measure up.

that may be incorrect too.

sometimes you deny the humanity of other people, just like nihilists do.

you talk about 'us' as if we were less than animals, things, objects, nonentities...

i am not impressed by this, if i were, i wouldn't even be talking with you again.

maybe you still have much to learn about human relationship, Wanderer.

maybe you still need to know the meaning of the word LIMIT.

Quote :

My only focus, now, is my son.
He'll be brought up to be more than any of you can even imagine.

your son is another human being, you cannot idealize his future, you do not know what he'll really be

another time, another history, another 'destiny'

you shouldn't fight to make of your son what you never were...

let him be what he wishes, let him love and fight for his own freedom.

Quote :

But if any of you choose to underestimate my mind, then do so at your own peril.
Otherwise, go back to the mediocrity of your usual surroundings and your Internet friernds - none of which have ever, EVER, been banished, because none of them have ever, EVER, said anything relevant or that goes against popular opinions.

wrong, biased, mistaken view

i have no real 'friends' on the web

the ones i thought could fit this shoe have disappointed me, for may reasons

i'm as alone in the virtual world as i am in the real one, i rarely identify myself with anyone i meet on these boards.

and i'm no moderator or admin of web boards. they should know the reasons why they ban some users from their boards. go and ask them their motivation. that's not my business.

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

You state that happiness is a myth, then claim to love life. Contradiction?

you decide.

Your entire world view hinges on the pursuit of happiness...you sacrifice truth and reality to it.

My world view hinges on experiences and with the pursuit of the knowledge/strength to be able to deal with the real and the truth and so to more fully experience life...without having to selectively experience it.

It is unfortunate that you don't understand how you can love something, as it is, because the way it is, is what makes you possible.
Acceptance.

But I have never said that i do not love things as they are. To say i am deluded into "perusing happiness" is a general blanket statement that says nothing about what i actually do. You gain experience and strength which allows you to appreciate life, and what cannot I? What have i done that precludes me from appreciating life?

If happiness is a myth, loving life is a myth...

The thing you probably think about happiness is that it's some endless materialist chase, but as i said awhile ago, all you have to do is realize that you cannot have everything you desire, and there is a chance you will be content with what you have.

Thinking you're the only one who can tolerate life is sheer arrogance.

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

To say entropy is the inevitable losing fight against need, discomfort, and disorder, then to claim to be content with life. Contradiction?

This didn't even make sense and has nothing to do with what I said.

The contradiction is in you and how you react to what I say or what you think I am saying.

If the only way you can be happy is to delude yourself or to remain blind to how the universe is, then is that an argument or a plea?

I think you are exposing your need to remain blind, to selectively percive, so as to rescue the myth of happiness from the jaws of reason.

But you have not masticated my views on anything. Amidst your insults you forgot to make an argument.

So far I'm so stupid that i cannot understand your arguments and have not said anything logical, thus you do not have to explain why happiness is a myth or anything boring like that.

Tell me why my happiness is a myth because i do not confront the universe as if it is a black hole... The jaws of reason? please... You calling me weak is not reason.

Satyr wrote:

You are like an obese man who failing to lose weight or not wanting to sacrifice the pleasure and the inebriating, calming effect eating offers him, reinvents fitness, claims that exercise is unneeded suffering, and believes it's a contradiction to seek out this physical stress and then find an increase in pleasure, through it.

Denial does not save you from reality.

The only thing that leads you to say this is my lack of an emotional agreement with you. You have metaphors but i cannot understand them. What do i deny again? Reality? what part of reality do i deny?

explain...

Satyr wrote:

I am content because, firstly, I've come to terms with who and what I am....I try to improve my self daily, and, secondly, I accept as necessary the things I cannot change.
If things were different...I would not be here.

I refuse to sugarcoat reality to make it more tasty.
My motive is to see as much of the world and try to understand as much of reality as possible before I die...if I am lucky I may even get to pas on my insights to others.

Your motive is to inebriate yourself.

My stated goal? when did i say that?

So you try to learn in life, and that makes you love life?

I just claim to try to love life, and i say that makes me love life...

why am i a hedonist again? because you assume so?

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

And if these things are not contradictions, what differs about my claims concerning "loving life" or "being happy" or "being content"?

What differs is that you go about it by denying the parts of reality that make you feel bad or threaten your bliss.

instead of telling me i'm in denial, like you always say, how about telling me what i deny? what makes me feel bad? tell me, I'm dying to know...

Satyr wrote:

You avoid suffering and so you make yourself more vulnerable to it....and your contentment more dependent on others and more tenuously maintained.

A drug addict can claim that the drug makes him happy.

I avoid suffering? How so?

One of my philosophies is to work hard and thereby appreciate myself and what i have worked for more...

Where do you get these inaccuracies from?

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

what is so wholesome about your view of life?

It's based on facing reality, rather than avoiding it.
Therefore, what contentment comes form it is more stronger because it is the product of endurance, objectivity and honesty.

more stronger?

My way of doing things is honest, whether you think so or not, durable, whether you thing so or not, and instead of objectivity, i settle for subjectivity, because helping the human race by contributing knowledge or being famous just doesn't float my boat.

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

is it simply more logical?

Yes. That too.

Quote :

Am i simply irrational?

Emotionally driven...feminine and so intellectually stunted.

Quote :

What truth do i hide from?

Any truth that confronts your well-being and so threatens you.

unless you can be specific about the last one, these are just opinions and statements (inaccurate ones)

Satyr wrote:

Quote :

what truth are you frustrated with?

The truth that I was trapped in a world with no frontiers to escape into and so forced to deal with simple minds, gaining positions of social power and with masses of immature, genetically inferior minds, that affected my life and forced me to make compromises on my principles.

Now, too old and too habituated, I seek to escape into the frontiers of my mind.


I want more freedom to dedicate my time as I please, before it ends.
I want to explore the world and not be trapped within its superficiality.

You want to live longer, and have more freedom? Why?

Is what you have not satisfying enough? do you not appreciate it enough?

You talk about endurance but cannot stomach a couple billion mentally inferior morons?

why not become king ape? Lord of the flies?

Why not use your melon head to show us all how stupid we are instead of just calling people stupid.

What truth do i hide from again? the frustrating world of idiots?

IF that is what bothers you, you're more pathetically self deluded than i thought...

Like the trial of life is stomaching morons...

Comon Satyr, you used to seem tougher than that...

MY replies are too long, i know you will be "frustrated" in making a reply, you're weak and unable to stomach reality like that, as we know.

So here is what you can respond to.

What reality do i hide from Satyr? What do i sugar coat? what do i deny?

You talk about not being able to cope with people who are less intelligent than yourself, while claiming to have "endurance" which allows you to "Accept and love life"...

Well Satyr, i accept and love life without getting frustrated because everyone is less intelligent than me...

Must it be a miracle? am i a hero like you?

What do i deny again? be specific...

(what you see me in denial of is a negative emotional attitude toward life and other people, which is not a logical part of reality)

Drone wrote:

UR's obsession with you is his business.

If you want me to be gone from this thread, then quit summoning me with your girlish taunts. Anybody with a clear head should be able to witness that I am not obsessed with Satyr insofar as we are both pursuing the same thing, the same task, the same goal. That you and a vast majority of others cannot figure this out is not really my problem, but yours. It is just annoying to me when you and the others keep getting me wrong, over and over and over again.

So quit referencing me; it is a waste of my time.

Produce a *REAL* argument, with points & reason, if you want to be taken seriously ... if you even can.

Unreasonable wrote:

If you want me to be gone from this thread, then quit summoning me with your girlish taunts. Anybody with a clear head should be able to witness that I am not obsessed with Satyr insofar as we are both pursuing the same thing, the same task, the same goal. That you and a vast majority of others cannot figure this out is not really my problem, but yours. It is just annoying to me when you and the others keep getting me wrong, over and over and over again.

So quit referencing me; it is a waste of my time.

Produce a *REAL* argument, with points & reason, if you want to be taken seriously ... if you even can.

you don't need to agree with me on that, UR

our actions betray us. we don't need to admit anything.

Drone wrote:

i'm a mystery to you as you're a mystery to me.

A mystery?

Retard, your words, your opinions, how you express them, are a more intimate look into your essence.

The little details of how you dress, what job you do, what kind of ice cream you like, are not necessarily required.

Quote :

this interaction must have some importance to you, otherwise you wouldn't waste so much time with 'us imbeciles'. you must learn something with us in the end. you must need to humiliate others as a manner of flattering yourself. you mus protect your self and your persona from your own weaknesses by pointing out the weaknesses of others...

And what a convenient method of dismissing me and avoiding the fact that civilizations depend on stupidity... or produce sheltering, which stunts the minds of the masses and keeps them childish and helpless and with weak wills.

No, it can't be that my usage of the term RETARD is an honest assessment of the average human mind, being born within the current conditions - no it must be me compensating for my own weaknesses.

I deal with my weaknesses directly, otherwise I have no hope of correcting them.

Retard, I once was humble...and kind...and forgiving. then I realized people, even though they were many times weaker than I, saw my kindness as a weakness and I also realized that my humility was fake.
A christian virtue.
I realized I felt and, often was, superior to others intellectually and that their suffering was mostly the result of their own weak judgments.
I realized I did not owe them anything and that I could use their stupidity to my advantage, if I chose to do so.

I realized that most others were so dumb that I could not relate to them...they were, like, from another planet, a different species.
We had few things in common, mentally.

Quote :

here's your first flaw.

it's this 'bullshit' we call 'civilization' that allows you to have time to come here 'for clarity'.

you're a product of Western civilization like all of us. you need it and you depend on it. however, you want to be above it.

your challenge is to prove that you are in fact above it, in reality, not just in your mind.

Bravo, sir!!!!!!

Excellent.

So offering a critique of what benefits you and me is a sign of weakness, and just pretending everything is good, is strength?

I love my son, does that mean I do not see and admit his flaws?

You think all civilizatinos are created equal or I should keep my mouth shut about the reality of how the system works because I depend on it?

Incredible...an actual admittance of selective, emotional, reasoning.

Proof of the truth of what I say is there in front of you. Open your eyes and see what I describe.
If you cannot or could not perceive it on your own, before I pointed it out to you, then use these redirecting tactics, and avoid the possibility that you may just be intellectually inferior.

But no, that can't be it...you will not have it...I am compensating again....Another flaw, another error, another contradiction...I am defeated again.

Will not a more honest assessment of what the system is and how it works not benefit me?

Does the obese man refusing to suffer and lose weight, inventing ways to feel better about his weakness, accusing those that point out that being fat is unattractive for obviuos genetic reasons, of being superficial and compensating for their own flaws, not deny reality to save himself the trouble?

Will not he seeing the sexual underlying ramifications, of fitness and beauty, and his acceptance of them, not motivate him to change himself, rather than just comfort himself?

Quote :

no, you are not.

and you know you're not.

you know that this sort of interaction is important for all of us. we need to communicate. we need to interact with others. we need to test our knowledge with them.

I am an elitist and a discriminating mind.

I want to interact with those that will offer me somehting in return.
The rest I use as examples to be avoided or validating my theories.
But that too will soon change.

T minus 4 days ...make good use of them.

Quote :

leave me out of this.

i have never objected your main points, i never really tried to 'refute' them.

No shit...it's my arrogance, my style you wish to "correct"....How not obvious.

You wish to put me in my place, find my weakness and make yourself a giant-killer.

Is that not why you, and the children you associate with, not declare victory agaisnt me constantly?
Is that not why you find me "fascinating"?

A splinter in the mind's eye, idiot!
Did I not say it?

You want to degrade me so as to dismiss me. You want to make me approachable.

Quote :

in fact, i do agree with a lot of things you say. That doesn't matter to you though, does it?

Your reactions, from a sociological and biological and psychological perspective do matter to me.

It is how I study the only animal that matters, in this day and age, the human one.

Quote :

it can prove, for instance, that your emotions are and can be manipulated.

Go, for it.

You MAKE ME SO ANGRY!!!!!!

Another one of my "emotinoal outbursts!!!! You moron!!!!

Oops, another one.

Quote :

it can show to you a weakness you may want to fight

it can be useful, in other words.

Thank you for your help...see I am changing already.

I decided that these internet forums are not really meant for any honesty or a more intimate conversation. They are just a microcosm of the world.

Remaining hypocritically respectful, ignoring some, humoring others, socializing, pretending some deep thinking, counter-cultural ideas are expressed, is all part of it.

You cannot escape the herd's need for the facade, the bullshit....a herd produces a lot of bull and cow shit.
You have to blend in, wear their hides to appear to be like them, you must moo with them, in unison, about how great things are on the farm...

So be it.

Quote :

UR's obsession with you is his business.

and your obsession with me, is yours.

Quote :

i don't want 'guidance', I'm a free man. I want and love liberty. i have no personal belief, I have no ideal.

See, right away you expose how pathetic your thinking is.

Everyone has an ideal. Freedom is an ideal...not having ideals IS an ideal.

Quote :

i want to interact with you for different reasons, still not understood by me.

But known to me.

I've already posted the reasons.

Reread the Bad Boy Factor in my The Feminization of Mankind essay.

Quote :

maybe i want to see what it would mean for me to be like you: an intellectual giant obliged to reduce himself to a fruitless and endless debate with people who are supposedly beneath his intellect

"Fruitless"?

Not quite.
Interacting with animals gives you an insight into their behaviors.
They've served their purpose and I verified many of my opinions through them.

Now, I am almost done.
Not much more else to learn by studying them...and so I must change.

Quote :

maybe i need to know why i should care

just like when I was trying to 'discuss' with 'Mcmiserable', and trying to undestand why i was losing my time with him...

do you not care about yourself?

Then anything that offers you an insight is what you care about.

If you do not care about yourself then good luck to ya.

Quote :

NO!

you're wrong!

none of us is an 'open book' to anyone. Noone I know does really know me. Most people look at me as a fine, smart, balanced guy. nobody ever has realized how utterly depressed, lonely, lost I generally feel...

You've never come across someone like me, you little retard.
Never!!!
And if you have, he didn't expose himself to you,l even after he had read you like a book. Maybe you had nothing (s)he needed.

Is that not why I fascinate you?

Little boy, that is why I said that this medium is more honest and enlightening.
Here people speak their minds, to varying degrees, and this is a more intimate projection of self.

Out in the real world everyone is careful, hypocritical, one has to be sensitive to nuances, subtle gestures and looks and details.....details.

This is why here I find it more insightful when studying human beings. Less of the distracting bullshit going on.
It's all intelelctual and the mind is the essence of a man's identity.
A mere opinion exposes aspects of a man not even he may know about...like a sexual fantasy.

Quote :

i'm anxious, i'm really willing to know what this metamorphosis will be

i'm really willing to know if you are really capable of changing

It'll be a facade....you want unwarranted respect?
I'll give you it.

I'll put the mask on, like most of you have put the blinders on.

Quote :

anyway, Satyr exists only on web board...you'll still be around, even if only to show us how your approach changed...

Really?
You mean I do not exist outside the internet?

What's in a name, you fool?

Quote :

sarcasm is fun, remember?

Bait and switch.

I wonder how much you realize that it was also an unconscious desire.

Quote :

you are self-contradictory sometimes, you are needy all the time.

must I remember why, again?

Not really...you can just say it and never prove it....

Look I can levitate.

Boy, the only contradictions are in how you've understood, if you have, what I've been saying.

Do you even realize, the inner need you have, to put me in my place, to defeat me, to overcome me?

Quote :

right! agreed. stupidity really gets on my nerves too.

however, what's the difference between what you dislike and what you find stupid?

Is there?

I dislike stupidity.

Why?
Because in this world, under these circumstances, it is a dangerous thing.
In nature stupidity meets its natural quick end, in this human world it goes on and on and on...because it is necessary to systemic harmony.

Quote :

that may be incorrect too.

sometimes you deny the humanity of other people, just like nihilists do.

and it MIGHT be correct.

Let's just exchange declarations, shall we?

I have a very specific definition for the word human...and being part of the same species is only a small part of it....degrees of humanity.

I do not consider a stunted mind to be fully a homo sapient...especially the sapient part.

Quote :

you talk about 'us' as if we were less than animals, things, objects, nonentities...

i am not impressed by this, if i were, i wouldn't even be talking with you again.

maybe you still have much to learn about human relationship, Wanderer.

Maybe you still need to know the meaning of the word LIMIT.

Or maybe I do know relationships. I see them more honestly and I understand that we are all a means to an end for one another.

Maybe your romantic idealism was erased when I was in my early twenties, by awareness.

Maybe, after studying humans, testing my views, observing, I became aware that things were not as they seemed...there was a game being played...much was being pretended, hidden.

Maybe my insights helped me predict future human behaviors and this offered me an advantage.

Maybe my brutal honesty was my ace?

Quote :

your son is another human being, you cannot idealize his future, you do not know what he'll really be

another time, another history, another 'destiny'

you shouldn't fight to make of your son what you never were...

let him be what he wishes, let him love and fight for his own freedom.

Let me give you some advice:

Do not pret3end you have anything to teach me. You don't.
Only observing you interact is useful to me.

I do not want my son to be like me, I want him to be better....much better.

But I do not own him, I am only responsible for him, up to a certain age.
He will have a free will....not a stunted one.

Then he can do as he wishes with it.
I will teach, and then release.
life will be his problem.

Quote :

wrong, biased, mistaken view

i have no real 'friends' on the web

the ones i thought could fit this shoe have disappointed me, for may reasons

i'm as alone in the virtual world as i am in the real one, i rarely identify myself with anyone i meet on these boards.

Loneliness, you fool, is a natural part of existence...of individuation....of consciousness.

That's why many try to relieve this by associating self with a group or an otherness.
It makes them feel relieved, losing themselves in otherness.


In fact, as awareness grows, the sense of distinction, isolation, disconnection, grows.
It's called self-consciousness.


--------------
Have you not noticed how he adopts my style, uses my words, follows me around, regurgitates my positions?

I have.

Satyr wrote:

--------------
Have you not noticed how he adopts my style, uses my words, follows me around, regurgitates my positions?

I have.

Everybody takes from everybody Satyr, even you. You threw your thesis out into the wild, a piece of food to become devoured by another hungry mind. Don't complain. I wonder if you-yourself realize what you have taken from others, and how much...?

With that aside, I do hope that you stay around the internet forums. You are a beneficiary to Philosophy in general; few remain. So you have proven your feminization of man thesis well-above what you might have originally-hoped. -- So what next, Nothing? If you are to truly-dedicate and/or devote yourself to Philosophy, then you need to realize that Philosophy is a community of thinkers. Of course such people are hard to find in this day & age, or nigh-impossible, but you are not a Philosopher without a community. Without the crowd to listen to or persecute Socrates, there is no Socrates. Will you choose a self-determined banishment or a different fate? Trust me on this fact alone, if nothing else, you do not need more self-imposed isolation. The universe does not need another black hole, another great contributor toward entropy. Mankind is constantly-changing, for the better or worse is based upon the Individual and how He reacts to the process.

Satyr wrote:

I decided that these internet forums are not really meant for any honesty or a more intimate conversation. They are just a microcosm of the world.

Indeed they are. But it is the best format available right now. And some people work to improve this pretext for general thought. The best idea I can conjure is owning your own threads: self-moderation & administration. If you can think of something better, then by all means, speak your mind sir, here & now. Personally-speaking, I am sick & tired of smears, faust, and even you ruining my serious philosophical efforts. Therefore, the least I can do is delete the garbage from my threads right out of existence. What is a better way of owning what you say, or, what you create???

I do not type the words I speak for them to be shat upon, by anybody, lest of all you.

So do me favor, and don't mention my name again in your laundry-lists of who is "cool-wit-me" and who is not.

hah, funny

i would really like that this could be a polite and useful conversation between two adult human beings, but you're apparently incapable of discussing with anyone without appealing to your notorious ad hominens and slander

ok, so be it, but remember, Satyr, I still believe you don't even know me. and I'm still not afraid of you. you may think you scare me with your insinuations about my intelligence and my sexuality, but as long as your opinions are not really accurate, they say nothing to me...

Satyr wrote:

A mystery?

Retard, your words, your opinions, how you express them, are a more intimate look into your essence.

The little details of how you dress, what job you do, what kind of ice cream you like, are not necessarily required.

the fact is: you can be mislead by my words, or rather, how you interpret them, Satyr

you didn't even know who I was untill I admitted it

you're not so wise as you like to think

Quote :

And what a convenient method of dismissing me and avoiding the fact that civilizations depend on stupidity... or produce sheltering, which stunts the minds of the masses and keeps them childish and helpless and with weak wills.

that wasn't an attempt to dismiss you

however, you're right in your assumption that stupidity is everywhere in our 'civilization'. but if you 're right, and the majority of people are stupid, then in fact this is their planet, not yours. you're out of your place in this world.

where else could or should you live then?

Quote :

No, it can't be that my usage of the term RETARD is an honest assessment of the average human mind, being born within the current conditions - no it must be me compensating for my own weaknesses.

this is how you label an enormous number of people who seem to be stupid or 'weak' to you

it doesn't mean that these folks are necessarily retarded, or stupid. Intelligence, awareness, knowledge vary from person to person. Maybe you just want and need to believe that you're above all others.

and yet you live and depend on the same world...

Quote :

I deal with my weaknesses directly, otherwise I have no hope of correcting them.

Retard, I once was humble...and kind...and forgiving. then I realized people, even though they were many times weaker than I, saw my kindness as a weakness and I also realized that my humility was fake.
A christian virtue.
I realized I felt and, often was, superior to others intellectually and that their suffering was mostly the result of their own weak judgments.
I realized I did not owe them anything and that I could use their stupidity to my advantage, if I chose to do so.

I realized that most others were so dumb that I could not relate to them...they were, like, from another planet, a different species.
We had few things in common, mentally.

Satyr, for me one of the great virtues a man can have is HONESTY

I'd have no problems with Christians if they actually 'practiced' what they preach. Which means that the problem is not their options and their beliefs, but their hypocrisy.

my mother is Christian. I see that she does believe in the faith, though she doesn't really live as Jesus told, because she cannot, she's just an old woman after all. I do not see why I should consider my mother as some sort of monster of hypocrisy, though, since I myself don't have any sort of right to think that my 'vision' of the world is more accurate, and 'truer' than hers.

so i remain silent. that's has nothing to do with weakness, but with humility, true, honest humility, not the false one you're accustomed with,

Quote :

Bravo, sir!!!!!!

Excellent.

So offering a critique of what benefits you and me is a sign of weakness, and just pretending everything is good, is strength?

I love my son, does that mean I do not see and admit his flaws?

You think all civilizatinos are created equal or I should keep my mouth shut about the reality of how the system works because I depend on it?

I never implied that you should keep your mind shut

i tried to point out to you that your 'awareness' of how things really 'work' in reality doesn't really change anything, and also that if it wasn't for the particular conditions of our 'civilization', you wouldn't even have the time or the possibility of thinking the way you do.

you're a product of this time and of this environment, just like Nietzsche was a product of his. you're not superior to anyone else because you can 'see' what they can't see. why? because you just see. That's all you do: you 'understand' how things are. you don't really change anything, and more, you don't really want to change anything...

Quote :

Incredible...an actual admittance of selective, emotional, reasoning.

Proof of the truth of what I say is there in front of you. Open your eyes and see what I describe.
If you cannot or could not perceive it on your own, before I pointed it out to you, then use these redirecting tactics, and avoid the possibility that you may just be intellectually inferior.

another vain insinuation, thanks.

if i admit that you might be probably right, then that will change my intellectual status before your eyes?

frankly man, in a world where everyone lies, what's the practical meaning of being 'right'?

what does it change if your assessments are really right and accurate?

Quote :

But no, that can't be it...you will not have it...I am compensating again....Another flaw, another error, another contradiction...I am defeated again.

Will not a more honest assessment of what the system is and how it works not benefit me?

Does the obese man refusing to suffer and lose weight, inventing ways to feel better about his weakness, accusing those that point out that being fat is unattractive for obviuos genetic reasons, of being superficial and compensating for their own flaws, not deny reality to save himself the trouble?

Will not he seeing the sexual underlying ramifications, of fitness and beauty, and his acceptance of them, not motivate him to change himself, rather than just comfort himself?

you use your own standards to tell how everyone should think or feel.

it seems we are leaving in a world of imperfect machines that should be either 'bettered' or annihilated.

man, keep somthing in your mind: there are a LOT of people who are happy in, and like, the world as it is. not everybody sees that 'something is wrong', in fact nobody does.

what do you suggest me to do, after all? Should i tell my mother that she is a failure because she is Christian and doesn't know that Christianity is an illusion? Should I hate all people around me because they were born different from me.

jesus, how absurdly hateful and nasty you sound sometimes, man!

Quote :

I am an elitist and a discriminating mind.

I want to interact with those that will offer me somehting in return.
The rest I use as examples to be avoided or validating my theories.
But that too will soon change.

T minus 4 days ...make good use of them.

what use?

so far you aren't teaching me anything. i want more. you're Satyr, remember? the man who knows me better than i do. I surely think you can offer me more than mere diatribe and odd complaints...

Quote :

No shit...it's my arrogance, my style you wish to "correct"....How not obvious.

You wish to put me in my place, find my weakness and make yourself a giant-killer.

Is that not why you, and the children you associate with, not declare victory agaisnt me constantly?
Is that not why you find me "fascinating"?

A splinter in the mind's eye, idiot!
Did I not say it?

You want to degrade me so as to dismiss me. You want to make me approachable.

no

no

no

no

merda, Satyr! I want to understand, not to 'change' you

i find you fascinating because that's what you are, the most interesting personality i ever found on a web board. that doesn't mean that i plan to change, humiliate or 'put you in your place'.

i want you to explain to me, man, and to yourself, why an intelligent and brilliant guy has so much difficulty in dealing with other people without dismissing them. i want you to explain me what's the real problem here.

maybe I should see tha you yourself don't know that?

Quote :

Your reactions, from a sociological and biological and psychological perspective do matter to me.

It is how I study the only animal that matters, in this day and age, the human one.

another admission of weakness, for the ones who can see

you need other people, even if it's only for the sake of 'study'

without them, you'd be nothing

Quote :

Go, for it.

You MAKE ME SO ANGRY!!!!!!

Another one of my "emotinoal outbursts!!!! You moron!!!!

Oops, another one.

hey, didn't you even LAUGH that other day when i told you we would be 'good buddies'?

Quote :

Thank you for your help...see I am changing already.

I decided that these internet forums are not really meant for any honesty or a more intimate conversation. They are just a microcosm of the world.

Remaining hypocritically respectful, ignoring some, humoring others, socializing, pretending some deep thinking, counter-cultural ideas are expressed, is all part of it.

You cannot escape the herd's need for the facade, the bullshit....a herd produces a lot of bull and cow shit.
You have to blend in, wear their hides to appear to be like them, you must moo with them, in unison, about how great things are on the farm...

So be it.

wrong again, mistaken again

tell me, isn't a place like this valid only because we can say here what we would never say in the real world?

merda, Satyr, do you think i LIKE society as it is? Do you think i 'like' to live in this world? Can't you see that I have no other option? Can't you see that I simply try not to delude myself into thinking that I make, or could make, any difference?

if you want to live in society man, then you'll be a part of a farce. if you don't want it, then your only way out is suicide.

Quote :

and your obsession with me, is yours.

there's a difference between an obsession and random interest in my view

i'm interested in you and in what you say, I'm not 'obsessed' by you

if i never talked with you again, nothing would change in my life.

don't consider yourself something so important, please.

Quote :

See, right away you expose how pathetic your thinking is.

Everyone has an ideal. Freedom is an ideal...not having ideals IS an ideal.

ok, so be it!

But I'm proud of not being a slave to any idea.

I would never die (or live) for any conviction of mine...

Quote :

But known to me.

I've already posted the reasons.

Reread the Bad Boy Factor in my The Feminization of Mankind essay.

what do you mean?

Am I trying to prove to myself that i am 'tough' by facing a guy superior to me and dismissing him without really objecting his points against me?

but what would be the use of it, man?

don't you accept that your defninitions may not fit everybody necessarily?

Quote :

"Fruitless"?

Not quite.
Interacting with animals gives you an insight into their behaviors.
They've served their purpose and I verified many of my opinions through them.

Now, I am almost done.
Not much more else to learn by studying them...and so I must change.

then that's the way you look at all the people who have so far 'interacted' with you?

animals who have served their purpose?

well, it was me who asked for that, wasn't it?

that's a confirmation of your extreme narrow-mindedness or an admission that you disguise your inability to deal with other people through a false sense of superiority?

Quote :

do you not care about yourself?

Then anything that offers you an insight is what you care about.

If you do not care about yourself then good luck to ya.

obviously I do.

don't deceive yourself, Satyr. I'm trying to take from you something that might be useful to my undestanding of the world and of myself. I just gave up Mclaren because I recognize that he can't offer me anything. tell me, is this your case too?

Quote :

You've never come across someone like me, you little retard.
Never!!!
And if you have, he didn't expose himself to you,l even after he had read you like a book. Maybe you had nothing (s)he needed.

Is that not why I fascinate you?

you got me now. is that what you wanted to hear?

Quote :

Little boy, that is why I said that this medium is more honest and enlightening.
Here people speak their minds, to varying degrees, and this is a more intimate projection of self.

Out in the real world everyone is careful, hypocritical, one has to be sensitive to nuances, subtle gestures and looks and details.....details.

This is why here I find it more insightful when studying human beings. Less of the distracting bullshit going on.
It's all intelelctual and the mind is the essence of a man's identity.
A mere opinion exposes aspects of a man not even he may know about...like a sexual fantasy.

you mean that even under this false nick, protected by my anonymity, I'm still revealing myself to you? My reasons, my motivations, my nothingness?

so be it, what can I do?

Quote :

It'll be a facade....you want unwarranted respect?
I'll give you it.

I'll put the mask on, like most of you have put the blinders on.

why 'unwarranted' respect?

why couldn't you respect me in the end? what have i ever done against you? what's the 'problem' between us?

i don't want falsehood, Wanderer. if you REALLY think i'm despicable, then say it. But explain your reasons, don't say it only. you know, i'm also tired of mere declarations...

Quote :

Really?
You mean I do not exist outside the internet?

What's in a name, you fool?

here's a contradiction: you have already admitted that Satyr's just a persona, a mask...

i bet that you're not that aggressive and arrogant in reality. have you ever insulted a neighbour or a policeman like you insult 'us imbeciles', for instance?

Quote :

Bait and switch.

I wonder how much you realize that it was also an unconscious desire.

do you mean that i WOULD REALLY LIKE TO defeat you if i could?

man, sometimes I really just want some fun.

i was kidding, for instance, when I said that i'm the wisest guy that i know...

Quote :

Look I can levitate.

Boy, the only contradictions are in how you've understood, if you have, what I've been saying.

Do you even realize, the inner need you have, to put me in my place, to defeat me, to overcome me?

you are TOTALLY wrong again.

i don't really want to 'defeat' you, I was only joking around, trying to provoke you.

i want to teach you a lesson, i want to show you that your attitude towards others, no matter what they do or say to you, is overall hard to accept.

i want to show you that you have NO REASON WHATSOEVER to despise people you hardly know so much as you do.

i want to teach you a lesson of humility.

why do you think I need to prove myself that I can 'overcome' you? do you really think you 'know' myself better than i?

Satyr wrote:

Is there?

I dislike stupidity.

Why?
Because in this world, under these circumstances, it is a dangerous thing.
In nature stupidity meets its natural quick end, in this human world it goes on and on and on...because it is necessary to systemic harmony.

how do you plan to get rid of it then?

'stupid' human beings are an absolute majority: this is their planet.

you'll have to kill yourself if you really dream of a world of intelligent folks.

Quote :

and it MIGHT be correct.

Let's just exchange declarations, shall we?

I have a very specific definition for the word human...and being part of the same species is only a small part of it....degrees of humanity.

I do not consider a stunted mind to be fully a homo sapient...especially the sapient part.

stunted mind is an arbitrary definition of yours. the people you call 'stunted' would not consider themselves to be less than human, to begin with.

according to your own standards, satyr, we live in a giant-size zoo

that's the way you justify your denying of people's humanity, isn't it?

i guess there were other people who did the same, with notorious practical results in the end.

wise up.

Quote :

Or maybe I do know relationships. I see them more honestly and I understand that we are all a means to an end for one another.

Maybe your romantic idealism was erased when I was in my early twenties, by awareness.

Maybe, after studying humans, testing my views, observing, I became aware that things were not as they seemed...there was a game being played...much was being pretended, hidden.

Maybe my insights helped me predict future human behaviors and this offered me an advantage.

but let me say it again, Wanderer, it's NOT 'romanticism' that leads me to despise the way you refer to other people. I would imitate you. I do not see people as guilty of their own existences. in fact, i pity people much more than i hate or despise them.

we're all in the same boat anyway.

Maybe my brutal honesty was my ace?

you didn't 'find out' anything that wasn't 'found out' before, to start with

everybody has always known that human society is a FARCE. I have realized that when I was still a teenager, though i never was able to make any use of this 'fact'.

it's just that we can't get rid of society as it is. in the end, what does it matter if you'll have to live your life pretending, one way or another?

Quote :

Let me give you some advice:

Do not pret3end you have anything to teach me. You don't.
Only observing you interact is useful to me.

I do not want my son to be like me, I want him to be better....much better.

But I do not own him, I am only responsible for him, up to a certain age.
He will have a free will....not a stunted one.

Then he can do as he wishes with it.
I will teach, and then release.
life will be his problem.

you're so arrogant that you're not capable of admitting that everybody can teach something to us.

i was really trying to give you an advice: remember that your son is a different human being, and that his path will be unique. don't project your own prejudices and delusions on him. you'll probably be frustrated when you realize that this doesn't work.

Quote :

Loneliness, you fool, is a natural part of existence...of individuation....of consciousness.

That's why many try to relieve this by associating self with a group or an otherness.
It makes them feel relieved, losing themselves in otherness.

i know, and I agree with you that most people try to 'disappear' in the crowds, because they can't stand the burden of individuality

now how can I blame them if I know how they feel?

Quote :

In fact, as awareness grows, the sense of distinction, isolation, disconnection, grows.
It's called self-consciousness.

then I already know what it means to be self-conscious, because i have always felt utterly alone in the world

even this online interaction never ceases to be superficial and unsatisfactory to me...

Drone wrote:

hah, funny

i would really like that this could be a polite and useful conversation between two adult human beings, but you're apparently incapable of discussing with anyone without appealing to your notorious ad hominens and slander

The term ad hominem is overused.

It, certainly, does not negate the truth of my assessment.
Who knew that reality had to be flattering to you and that anyone exposing a reality that is insulting to you is guilty of ad hominem attacks?

Quote :

ok, so be it, but remember, Satyr, I still believe you don't even know me. and I'm still not afraid of you. you may think you scare me with your insinuations about my intelligence and my sexuality, but as long as your opinions are not really accurate, they say nothing to me...

The fact that you keep on repeating this, reveals... something.

Quote :

the fact is: you can be mislead by my words, or rather, how you interpret them, Satyr

you didn't even know who I was untill I admitted it

you're not so wise as you like to think

Retard, what pseudonym you use or even if you use your real name, does not negate or hide who you are.

You can be Bill or Jack, your essence remains the same.

Pretending to be someone else is easy on internet forums, because nobody sees you, but how long can you hide?

Plus, you seem to think I am preoccupied with what little boy is trying to pull what prank...
When nothing relevant is being said, why would i care how many aliases you use, when the mind behind it cannot be changed?

Quote :

that wasn't an attempt to dismiss you

however, you're right in your assumption that stupidity is everywhere in our 'civilization'. but if you 're right, and the majority of people are stupid, then in fact this is their planet, not yours. you're out of your place in this world.

where else could or should you live then?

In fact I am built for this world.
I just have to figure out how to detach myself from stupidity so that it affects me minimally.

Then stupidity suits me just fine.

But, I'm surprised at your ad hominem attacks against humanity...shamed....and why exclude yourself?
Have you displayed any thinking that would warrant such a distinction?

Quote :

this is how you label an enormous number of people who seem to be stupid or 'weak' to you

it doesn't mean that these folks are necessarily retarded, or stupid. Intelligence, awareness, knowledge vary from person to person. Maybe you just want and need to believe that you're above all others.

and yet you live and depend on the same world...

Yes, i was born into it and there are no frontiers to escape into.

Not these days.

But, retard, stupidity is ubiquitous...and thanks about teaching me that intelligence varies from person to person.
It also varies from dog to dog.

Quote :

Satyr, for me one of the great virtues a man can have is HONESTY

I'd have no problems with Christians if they actually 'practiced' what they preach. Which means that the problem is not their options and their beliefs, but their hypocrisy.

No, retard, because the ideal itself breeds stupidity as part of its necessity.

Furthermore, I am not interested in theoretical ideals but only in pragmatism.

Communism, theoretically, is perfect and so is Democracy....Neither is or was ever practiced.
well, perhaps in the beginnings when the idealism was still passionate and warm and before human beings corrupted them.

Quote :

my mother is Christian. I see that she does believe in the faith, though she doesn't really live as Jesus told, because she cannot, she's just an old woman after all. I do not see why I should consider my mother as some sort of monster of hypocrisy, though, since I myself don't have any sort of right to think that my 'vision' of the world is more accurate, and 'truer' than hers.

so i remain silent. that's has nothing to do with weakness, but with humility, true, honest humility, not the false one you're accustomed with,

My mother is christian also.

I let her beleive what offers her comfort and gives her strength....but this is not a philosophical argument for a belief...it is an emotional one.

Quote :

I never implied that you should keep your mind shut

i tried to point out to you that your 'awareness' of how things really 'work' in reality doesn't really change anything, and also that if it wasn't for the particular conditions of our 'civilization', you wouldn't even have the time or the possibility of thinking the way you do.

It most certainly changes everything for me.

For you, maybe, philosophizing is like just sitting around with some buddies shooting the shit...as Faust, that moron, declared.

Mental masturbation is not enough for me...Information has to offer me the possibility for usage....or else it is useless and I am not interested.

Quote :

you're a product of this time and of this environment, just like Nietzsche was a product of his. you're not superior to anyone else because you can 'see' what they can't see. why? because you just see. That's all you do: you 'understand' how things are. you don't really change anything, and more, you don't really want to change anything...

Quote :

Incredible...an actual admittance of selective, emotional, reasoning.

Proof of the truth of what I say is there in front of you. Open your eyes and see what I describe.
If you cannot or could not perceive it on your own, before I pointed it out to you, then use these redirecting tactics, and avoid the possibility that you may just be intellectually inferior.

You idiot, you speak of Nietzsche, to this day, because he saw what you and billions of others could not.

Retard, just because for you soemthing is useful only if others acknowledge it or if you can be noticed, doesn't mean that everyone will choose to use power, insight, knowledge that way.

The only person I want to change, idiot, is me...I could care less about you and your buddies.

My mind, my awareness, helps me daily...it has already helped me very much in my life.
Why would I use it to help you or change anything for you?

Quote :

another vain insinuation, thanks.

if i admit that you might be probably right, then that will change my intellectual status before your eyes?

No, but if you actually say something intelligent, it might.

Quote :

frankly man, in a world where everyone lies, what's the practical meaning of being 'right'?

Will not being right more efficiently focus your energies and help you avoid mistakes that others make and help you see the lies and help you manipulate these lies and ...and...and
Is the only benefit you can imagine, feminine mind, one where you are appreciated by the majority?

This is what makes you weak.

Elitism implies that the only judgment, other than your own, that you even acknowledge as respectable is the one that has proven itself as being perceptive.
That eliminates 80% of humanity.

Quote :

what does it change if your assessments are really right and accurate?

Nothing...for you.

You go back to what you were. That's the way I like it.

Quote :

you use your own standards to tell how everyone should think or feel.

yes...should i be using yours or some authority's?

There's your femininity, retard. Plain as day.
Did you see it?
Deference.

Quote :

\what do you suggest me to do, after all? Should i tell my mother that she is a failure because she is Christian and doesn't know that Christianity is an illusion? Should I hate all people around me because they were born different from me.

you can use others as examples to be avoided.
Hatred is just as useful as love....it distinguishes what you do not want to be anything like.

I hate shit...I admit it....and most of humanity is a pile of it.

Quote :

jesus, how absurdly hateful and nasty you sound sometimes, man!

Sometimes?!
All of the time, if I can be honest.

Quote :

what use?

Why would I care?

Do not use them....throw them away...ignore them...

Quote :

so far you aren't teaching me anything. i want more. you're Satyr, remember? the man who knows me better than i do. I surely think you can offer me more than mere diatribe and odd complaints...

Little retard, in order to help you, even if I cared to, I would have to be told many intimate things about you.

I cannot watch you move or talk or be and so words are the only things I've got.
At this point your defensiveness may make you extra careful of letting little hints through.

what I do know is that you are afraid of reality....not the fake one you exist in...REALITY, and you don't know how to deal with it.

Quote :

no

no

no

no

merda, Satyr! I want to understand, not to 'change' you

i find you fascinating because that's what you are, the most interesting personality i ever found on a web board. that doesn't mean that i plan to change, humiliate or 'put you in your place'.

i want you to explain to me, man, and to yourself, why an intelligent and brilliant guy has so much difficulty in dealing with other people without dismissing them. i want you to explain me what's the real problem here.

difficulty?

I am well liked in my real life.
Go figure.

But I have little patience.
This means I cannot put on the mask for too long, especially when I am facing an excruciatingly retarded mind.
That's when I need solitude to rest.

Quote :

another admission of weakness, for the ones who can see

you need other people, even if it's only for the sake of 'study'

without them, you'd be nothing

Retard, I am a social animal.

I am selective. My socializing must be with particular kinds of people.

Degree, moron, degree.

Quote :

hey, didn't you even LAUGH that other day when i told you we would be 'good buddies'?

No, was it funny?

Quote :

wrong again, mistaken again

tell me, isn't a place like this valid only because we can say here what we would never say in the real world?

wrong about what, you imbecile.
Didn't I say that ILP was only good because of that?!

But we really CANNOT say whatever we want, can we?
Faust and the idiot Carleas appear with childish justifications to throw you out because they don't like you or you are hurting the herd.

Faust went as far as to admit that the forum was not really about philosophy but just a place to hang out and shoot the shit and have a good time.
Then what is the idiot doing pretending he's a moderator of a forum dedicated to free-speech and exchanging ideas?

Quote :

merda, Satyr, do you think i LIKE society as it is? Do you think i 'like' to live in this world? Can't you see that I have no other option? Can't you see that I simply try not to delude myself into thinking that I make, or could make, any difference?

You are fucked!!

Who cares about making a difference to anyone but to self?
Only dim-witted, romantic, delusional, hypocritical idiots, like you!!!!

Quote :

there's a difference between an obsession and random interest in my view

i'm interested in you and in what you say, I'm not 'obsessed' by you

if i never talked with you again, nothing would change in my life.

From the looks of things nothing will ever change in your life because you can't find uses for anything?

Information is only information. What you do with it is another matter.
If you are not creative or you cannot find ways to use insight, then stay as you are.

Quote :

ok, so be it!

But I'm proud of not being a slave to any idea.

I would never die (or live) for any conviction of mine...

I would.

I would die for my dignity, my family, my freedom.

Quote :

then that's the way you look at all the people who have so far 'interacted' with you?

animals who have served their purpose?

Most of them, yes.

Everything and everyone is a resource.
They are more only to an emotional thinker.

Quote :

that's a confirmation of your extreme narrow-mindedness or an admission that you disguise your inability to deal with other people through a false sense of superiority?

And yet I deal with people daily and most of them like me and think I'm funny.

I've had a few travel over here to meet me.
One came to my wedding. another came to Greece with me one summer.

Imagine that, moron!

obviously I do.

Quote :

don't deceive yourself, Satyr. I'm trying to take from you something that might be useful to my undestanding of the world and of myself. I just gave up Mclaren because I recognize that he can't offer me anything. tell me, is this your case too?

Mcmiserable provides no theory, no reasoning, no logic...he just declares and whines and bitches and states.
He has A Buddhist, nihilistic vantage point with a twist of misery.

I've posted numerous threads, on many topics, with positions I've tried to reason out and argue for.
If none of it offers you anything then...move on.

Quote :

you mean that even under this false nick, protected by my anonymity, I'm still revealing myself to you? My reasons, my motivations, my nothingness?

Actions speak louder than words but in this case words are all I've got.

Are not words symbols of mental processes?
Is not the mind the essence of a man?

Sure you can hide and lie with words, but for how long?

Quote :

here's a contradiction: you have already admitted that Satyr's just a persona, a mask...

i bet that you're not that aggressive and arrogant in reality. have you ever insulted a neighbour or a policeman like you insult 'us imbeciles', for instance?

it's not entirely a mask for me. It's an aspect of my personality I keep tied and hidden.

Here I release the little bugger.

But, yes, I have gotten in trouble for speaking my mind....Like I said I have little patience and so, if I spend too much time with someone, i break and I tell him what I REALLY think when he says something stupid.

Quote :

you are TOTALLY wrong again.

i don't really want to 'defeat' you, I was only joking around, trying to provoke you.

I want to teach you a lesson, i want to show you that your attitude towards others, no matter what they do or say to you, is overall hard to accept.

there it is.

You say I am wrong and then you admit that you wish to "teach me".

This is a power word. It is a word of domination.
You wish to teach me a lesson.

Quote :

i want to show you that you have NO REASON WHATSOEVER to despise people you hardly know so much as you do.

I want to teach you a lesson of humility.

Ha!!! There it is again.
The Christian virtue of humility coming on arrogant wings of compassion.

You want to teach me humility, humiliate me....do you even know what words mean and what they are rooted in?

The giver demeans by giving, even under the guise of altruism, while the taker resents the gift, even when taking it and accepting it with thankfulness.

Will to Power from a feminine vantage point. The indirect method.

Read a book.

Quote :

why do you think I need to prove myself that I can 'overcome' you? do you really think you 'know' myself better than i?

Yes.

Look at the previous.

I bet you do not even see the arrogance and egoism and attempt to dominate in what you just said.

It is the same with all Christians.

Drone wrote:

how do you plan to get rid of it then?

'stupid' human beings are an absolute majority: this is their planet.

you'll have to kill yourself if you really dream of a world of intelligent folks.

Parasitism.

Notes from the Underground.

The Matrix

Shall I go on?

Quote :

stunted mind is an arbitrary definition of yours. the people you call 'stunted' would not consider themselves to be less than human, to begin with.

Neither would a dog consider itself to be inferior to a human.

Quote :

according to your own standards, satyr, we live in a giant-size zoo

that's the way you justify your denying of people's humanity, isn't it?

Is that what I said?

Degree...I don't deny their biological humanity, I deny their intelelctual one.

Most are animals pretending to be rational minds, when all they speak are trained into them.

Quote :

you're so arrogant that you're not capable of admitting that everybody can teach something to us.

I was talking about my son, you moron!

And yes, I've learned things from watching chickens interact back when I was a boy.
I wouldn't say they did so consciously.

Quote :

i was really trying to give you an advice: remember that your son is a different human being, and that his path will be unique. don't project your own prejudices and delusions on him. you'll probably be frustrated when you realize that this doesn't work.

He'll discover the truth in my words on his own...like many others have.

And if he doesn't, like many more others, he will face the consequences himself.

Quote :

now how can I blame them if I know how they feel?

If they stay disappeared, fine, but if they then go on-line and pretentiously claim to be individuals, then I'll show them how weak and pathetic they really are.

I don't care if a bunch of Christians go to church praying to an invisible God, groveling, begging, expecting, playing the humble card....but go public and pretend you are strong and you know a truth, and I'll tell you a truth.

Quote :

then I already know what it means to be self-conscious, because i have always felt utterly alone in the world

even this online interaction never ceases to be superficial and unsatisfactory to me...

Now learn to like it.

Learn to seek it out.

Learn that this loneliness is a necessary part of remaining distinct.
Learn to enjoy your own company.

Satyr wrote:

The term ad hominem is overused.

It, certainly, does not negate the truth of my assessment.
Who knew that reality had to be flattering to you and that anyone exposing a reality that is insulting to you is guilty of ad hominem attacks?

i don’t want reality to be ‘flattering’ to me. the fact is: this ‘reality’ insulting to me that you expose is not an absolutely true one. it consists basically of beliefs and conjectures. I have no reason whatsoever to attribute to you a level of awareness and perception that I don’t grant Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Cioran or Camus (my favorite philosophers, as you know). i always learn something with them and I do appreciate their company. But in the end, I know I can’t consider them as owners of some absolute truth. That could make me blind to their limitations and their human fragility.

in the end, they were flesh and blood men, like me. They aren’t my idols.

Quote :

The fact that you keep on repeating this, reveals... something.

no, I think you didn’t even understand what I meant when I first said this…

if I were afraid of you, I wouldn’t even approach you. look at the way you talk to me, you’re obviously trying to show me how stunted my mind is and how profound your understanding of reality and of myself is. Now if I really believed that your statements are always 100% accurate, and that I’m just an intellectually inferior ‘dude’, why would I waste my time trying to discuss with you? Why would I ‘challenge’ you to this ‘debate’?

the fact is, Satyr, I’m not REALLY afraid of everything in this world. and nobody really scares me. When a person comes pretending that he is all too strong, special, intelligent, I just notice how limited his understanding of life is. Everybody can easily believe that he ‘knows’ and ‘perceives’ what others can’t know or perceive. But that doesn’t change a thing. If you really can know something accurate or absolute certain about this world, then I can know it too. If you really can develop your intelligence and your awareness, then I can do it too. There’s no essential difference between us, we’re both in a similar situation.

that doesn’t mean that we’re ‘equal’ in all the senses of the word, but we’re surely ‘equal’ in a specific case, in our state of ignorance and defenselessness, in our condition as human beings, that is.

and I could be afraid of a god or an all-knowing man, but I could never be really afraid of a brother, an equal…

Quote :

Retard, what pseudonym you use or even if you use your real name, does not negate or hide who you are.

you can be Bill or Jack, your essence remains the same.

Pretending to be someone else is easy on internet forums, because nobody sees you, but how long can you hide?

plus, you seem to think I am preoccupied with what little boy is trying to pull what prank...
When nothing relevant is being said, why would i care how many aliases you use, when the mind behind it cannot be changed?

something relevant is being said, indeed.

using my true name at ILP means to me an act of honesty. I want to show myself as I really am. But it’s obvious that if someone who knows me personally registered at ILP too, he could point out to other people that I’m not actually the person who I seem to be, that I wear a mask too. In this case, an alias is useful, though I agree that I have limited my possibilities by admitting my ‘true identity’ now…

but helas, does it even matter?

Quote :

In fact I am built for this world.

thanks for the honest admission. I would never really object that.

Quote :

I just have to figure out how to detach myself from stupidity so that it affects me minimally.

Then stupidity suits me just fine.

But, I'm surprised at your ad hominem attacks against humanity...shamed....and why exclude yourself?
Have you displayed any thinking that would warrant such a distinction?

i have no intention whatsoever to consider myself a privileged member of humankind.

i am and want to stay human till the end. I don’t see anything special in elitism or sectarianism. In the end, what’s the advantage of considering oneself superior to the others when everything amounts to the same? In the end what’s the use of a flawed and mistaken sense of superiority?

one beautiful day, my life can be in the hands of a man I despise. I have often needed the help of people whom I could consider ‘inferior’ to myself. And when I needed them, and they did help me, their aid was essential to me.

this is how I understand humility, Satyr: just an honest admission of our fragile and precarious condition.

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No, retard, because the ideal itself breeds stupidity as part of its necessity.

Furthermore, I am not interested in theoretical ideals but only in pragmatism.

Communism, theoretically, is perfect and so is Democracy....Neither is or was ever practiced.
well, perhaps in the beginnings when the idealism was still passionate and warm and before human beings corrupted them.

I laugh when you call me ‘retard’, even knowing that I’m no retard.

does it make you feel ‘strong’?

let me see if I can ‘explain’ it to you: I have nothing whatsoever to do with the life and beliefs of anyone else. OK, in MY opinion Christianity is disgusting, stupid and mistaken. But that’s MY opinion. My mother doesn’t think like that, the Pope doesn’t think like that, most people in the world don’t think like that.

if a person wants to be Christian, what can I do to change his mind? Why in the heck would I care?

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My mother is christian also.

I let her beleive what offers her comfort and gives her strength....but this is not a philosophical argument for a belief...it is an emotional one.

Hah, your mother is Christian too!

Tell me, does she ‘pray’ for your soul, does she say that she wants you to be ‘saved’?

How do you deal with the old woman?

Yes, Satyr, not everything is reduced to reason and philosophy. We’re partially emotional too…

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It most certainly changes everything for me.

For you, maybe, philosophizing is like just sitting around with some buddies shooting the shit...as Faust, that moron, declared.

Mental masturbation is not enough for me...Information has to offer me the possibility for usage....or else it is useless and I am not interested.

Philosophy, for me, is an intellectual pastime. It can and do improve our intelligence and our ability to reason. But it’s not essential, and it’s doesn’t really change anything.

Faust is just too pragmatic to your tastes, just like me.

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You idiot, you speak of Nietzsche, to this day, because he saw what you and billions of others could not.

Retard, just because for you soemthing is useful only if others acknowledge it or if you can be noticed, doesn't mean that everyone will choose to use power, insight, knowledge that way.

The only person I want to change, idiot, is me...I could care less about you and your buddies.

My mind, my awareness, helps me daily...it has already helped me very much in my life.
Why would I use it to help you or change anything for you?

maybe if you show me how it has actually changed and helped you, it could help me too

that’s what I’m asking, after all.

and don't dare to talk about Nietzsche as if you knew him better than I do...

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No, but if you actually say something intelligent, it might.

I say something intelligent all the time.

I’m the humble, smart modern day guy.

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Will not being right more efficiently focus your energies and help you avoid mistakes that others make and help you see the lies and help you manipulate these lies and ...and...and
Is the only benefit you can imagine, feminine mind, one where you are appreciated by the majority?

This is what makes you weak.

No,

In fact I can imagine NO BENEFIT at all, that’s the point, you ‘masculine’ mind…

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Elitism implies that the only judgment, other than your own, that you even acknowledge as respectable is the one that has proven itself as being perceptive.
That eliminates 80% of humanity.

99%, I’d say

the judgment of 99% of people is meaningless to me, as well as their opinions and ideas.

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Nothing...for you.

You go back to what you were. That's the way I like it.

Back to what I was?

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yes...should i be using yours or some authority's?

There's your femininity, retard. Plain as day.
Did you see it?
Deference.

Listen, ‘retard’, your standards are not absolute, they’re as biased as they can be. THAT’S the fucking point!

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you can use others as examples to be avoided.
Hatred is just as useful as love....it distinguishes what you do not want to be anything like.

I hate shit...I admit it....and most of humanity is a pile of it.

No, I don’t think so. Call me an idiot or a feminized mind if you will. I don’t think people are piles of shit.

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Little retard, in order to help you, even if I cared to, I would have to be told many intimate things about you.

ha, a confession that you don’t really know me…

thanks, ‘big’ retard!

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I cannot watch you move or talk or be and so words are the only things I've got.
At this point your defensiveness may make you extra careful of letting little hints through.

what I do know is that you are afraid of reality....not the fake one you exist in...REALITY, and you don't know how to deal with it.

you’re always saying that we’re all afraid of reality: which reality? The one you live in? Is it the only one? Isn’t this concept vague and imperfect? Do we even know what our true ‘reality’ is?

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difficulty?

I am well liked in my real life.
Go figure.

i have always suspected it. I also think Mclaren, for instance, is well liked in his

advantages of online anonymity...

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But I have little patience.
This means I cannot put on the mask for too long, especially when I am facing an excruciatingly retarded mind.
That's when I need solitude to rest.

i wonder how the people around you would react if they knew what you think about most human beings...

hypocrisy is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

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Retard, I am a social animal.

I am selective. My socializing must be with particular kinds of people.

Degree, moron, degree.

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You are fucked!!

Who cares about making a difference to anyone but to self?
Only dim-witted, romantic, delusional, hypocritical idiots, like you!!!!

I’m not a hypocritical idiot. However, I’m tired of repeating this to you.

Just remember your own words the next time you say to anyone that he should consider the ‘social’, ‘political’ and ‘metaphysical’ aspects of anything.

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]From the looks of things nothing will ever change in your life because you can't find uses for anything?

Information is only information. What you do with it is another matter.
If you are not creative or you cannot find ways to use insight, then stay as you are.

I don’t want to ‘stay’ as I am

I want to change as soon as I see a good reason to do it.

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I would.

I would die for my dignity, my family, my freedom.

we’re different. my dignity is entirely relative, my family is not ‘mine’, my freedom is an illusion. I wouldn’t die for this. It's too little.

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Most of them, yes.

Everything and everyone is a resource.
They are more only to an emotional thinker.

i'm not emotional.

maybe I just think your definitions are too crude. in the end, we're all means to an end to each other, that's undeniable.

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And yet I deal with people daily and most of them like me and think I'm funny.

I've had a few travel over here to meet me.
One came to my wedding. another came to Greece with me one summer.

Imagine that, moron!

obviously I do.

the you’re just nothing but a big hypocrite. That’s all.

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I've posted numerous threads, on many topics, with positions I've tried to reason out and argue for.
If none of it offers you anything then...move on.

that was a question based on your own assessment on me. You have emphatically declared that I may be ‘intellectually’ inferior to you. In this sense, you wouldn’t and couldn’t offer me anything, right?

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Actions speak louder than words but in this case words are all I've got.

Are not words symbols of mental processes?
Is not the mind the essence of a man?

Sure you can hide and lie with words, but for how long?

I lose my patience easily. I get tired easily. That’s why I abandoned my little ‘moronic’ act…

But if I had patience, I’m sure I could deceive you for a long time.

I could pretend to be a woman, like Echo, or Ingenium, and make you believe me.

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there it is.

You say I am wrong and then you admit that you wish to "teach me".

This is a power word. It is a word of domination.
You wish to teach me a lesson.

a lesson that could be useful to you only, not to me. I don’t want to ‘dominate’ you, I don’t believe everything in this world is about domination, not when we’re aware that we can overcome this natural ethos.

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Ha!!! There it is again.
The Christian virtue of humility coming on arrogant wings of compassion.

You want to teach me humility, humiliate me....do you even know what words mean and what they are rooted in?

The giver demeans by giving, even under the guise of altruism, while the taker resents the gift, even when taking it and accepting it with thankfulness.

Will to Power from a feminine vantage point. The indirect method.

Read a book.

I didn’t use the word in the same sense as Christians do, I don’t want to humiliate you so that you may be 'under my influence' or whatever.

i want to test your limits, Satyr: what are you capable of admitting in the end, what are the weaknesses you can't hide from me.

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Yes.

Look at the previous.

I bet you do not even see the arrogance and egoism and attempt to dominate in what you just said.

It is the same with all Christians.

Satyr, we can OVERCOME mere and ruthless egoism if we will

we can abandon the 'imperatives' of nature if we're strong enough to do so

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Neither would a dog consider itself to be inferior to a human.

there's a difference

i KNOW, and i HAVE REASONS to believe that i'm not inferior to you or to anyone

it's you who has to prove the opposite.

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Is that what I said?

Degree...I don't deny their biological humanity, I deny their intelelctual one.

Most are animals pretending to be rational minds, when all they speak are trained into them.

You have even compared people to ‘feces’ in the other thread. That’s just going a bit too far, in my view.

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I was talking about my son, you moron!

And yes, I've learned things from watching chickens interact back when I was a boy.
I wouldn't say they did so consciously.

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He'll discover the truth in my words on his own...like many others have.

And if he doesn't, like many more others, he will face the consequences himself.

Good, you’ll be a good father, I’m sure

I can’t imagine you beating or humiliating your son, for instance.

Satyr, the all-knowing online sage wrote:

If they stay disappeared, fine, but if they then go on-line and pretentiously claim to be individuals, then I'll show them how weak and pathetic they really are.

why? Why do you need to do it?

The fake individuality manufactured and sold by modern ‘society’ is everything people have nowadays.

since such individuality is obviously an illusion, I see no reason to object or deny it

i play the game I was invited to play: i do what I can do, I pretend exactly as society tells me to pretend

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I don't care if a bunch of Christians go to church praying to an invisible God, groveling, begging, expecting, playing the humble card....but go public and pretend you are strong and you know a truth, and I'll tell you a truth.

when you mother go preachig to you, what do you say to her?

'shut up, you boring old woman! you're incapable of undestanding how futile your faith and your preaching are!

i bet you don't say a thing...my only option here at home too...

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Now learn to like it.

Learn to seek it out.

Learn that this loneliness is a necessary part of remaining distinct.
Learn to enjoy your own company.

back to the useful (and polite) advices?

in fact i DO APPRECIATE loneliness. I think it's preferable to the company of most people

Drone wrote:

i don’t want reality to be ‘flattering’ to me. the fact is: this ‘reality’ insulting to me that you expose is not an absolutely true one. it consists basically of beliefs and conjectures. I have no reason whatsoever to attribute to you a level of awareness and perception that I don’t grant Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Cioran or Camus (my favorite philosophers, as you know). i always learn something with them and I do appreciate their company. But in the end, I know I can’t consider them as owners of some absolute truth. That could make me blind to their limitations and their human fragility.

No shit?!

You mean there is no absolute?

Wow...who would have thought that?!

Quote :

if I were afraid of you, I wouldn’t even approach you. look at the way you talk to me, you’re obviously trying to show me how stunted my mind is and how profound your understanding of reality and of myself is. Now if I really believed that your statements are always 100% accurate, and that I’m just an intellectually inferior ‘dude’, why would I waste my time trying to discuss with you?

Christians can claim the same thing. Their delusions remain unshaken no matter what you tell them or what reasoning you provide.
If they were able to accept the truth about themselves, would they not change or be driven mad?

Quote :

Why would I ‘challenge’ you to this ‘debate’?

This is a debate?

Shit, what's the topic? Me?

Quote :

the fact is, Satyr, I’m not REALLY afraid of everything in this world. and nobody really scares me. When a person comes pretending that he is all too strong, special, intelligent, I just notice how limited his understanding of life is.

Aye...another fearless one.

Why is there a correlation between obtuseness and these statements of bravado?
I wont tell you.

How convenient of you to be able to dismiss what is superior to you, in that way.
I guess it can explain why you are so dumb.

Weakness always dismisses what it cannot reach....in that exact way.
Strength is produced when one inspired by strength. It emulates.

But you stay as you are...in a comfortable, fearless state of denial, and when someone points out a truth you don;'t like, even thuogh you are not afraid of it, then just tell yourself how 'limited' his understanding of life is.

Quote :

Everybody can easily believe that he ‘knows’ and ‘perceives’ what others can’t know or perceive. But that doesn’t change a thing. If you really can know something accurate or absolute certain about this world, then I can know it too.

Really?
There you are comforting yourself, despite your fearlessness.

Tell me, retard, can a dog know what a man does?
Given what you just said, it should...but no, no levels, no inequality of potential must stand in your way.
Your delusion depends on it.

Quote :

If you really can develop your intelligence and your awareness, then I can do it too. There’s no essential difference between us, we’re both in a similar situation.

Well, there goes genetics out the door...you just dismissed all that science crap, as well.

How do you do it?
How comforting it is to think that...and how fearless.

Quote :

that doesn’t mean that we’re ‘equal’ in all the senses of the word, but we’re surely ‘equal’ in a specific case, in our state of ignorance and defenselessness, in our condition as human beings, that is.

and I could be afraid of a god or an all-knowing man, but I could never be really afraid of a brother, an equal…

and is not the dog also our brother?
It doe not fear us. It can know if we can know. We all share the same condition, really.

What a fearless perspective. And so comforting.

Quote :

something relevant is being said, indeed.

using my true name at ILP means to me an act of honesty. I want to show myself as I really am. But it’s obvious that if someone who knows me personally registered at ILP too, he could point out to other people that I’m not actually the person who I seem to be, that I wear a mask too. In this case, an alias is useful, though I agree that I have limited my possibilities by admitting my ‘true identity’ now…

but helas, does it even matter?

Can you put a mask over your brain? It's ugly.

Change aliases, your 'true name is but another label, and you still remain the same old moron.

Quote :

i have no intention whatsoever to consider myself a privileged member of humankind.

i am and want to stay human till the end. I don’t see anything special in elitism or sectarianism. In the end, what’s the advantage of considering oneself superior to the others when everything amounts to the same? In the end what’s the use of a flawed and mistaken sense of superiority?

It makes all the difference to the here and now...who cares for posterity, oh fearless one?

The experience matters.
That's all that matters.

Quote :

one beautiful day, my life can be in the hands of a man I despise. I have often needed the help of people whom I could consider ‘inferior’ to myself. And when I needed them, and they did help me, their aid was essential to me.

this is how I understand humility, Satyr: just an honest admission of our fragile and precarious condition.

Yes, and then you should be humble towards a chicken because you also depend on it for your sustenance.

You don't even understand how consciousness is discrimination and that these value judgments of strong/weak, hard/soft, valuable/worthless all create the sense of self.
But you don't want to sense self...you want to disappear.

Quote :

I laugh when you call me ‘retard’, even knowing that I’m no retard.

does it make you feel ‘strong’?

Oh, little retard, but you are...you are.
A stunted tree in a forest where the farmer warps his trees to make them more manageable.

Does it make me feel strong?
No, not really.
I already know that i am so, mentally, in comparison to you.

Have you ever actually produced a piece of work proving that you are not retarded, other than your declarations?
I can claim that i can write brilliant poetry but will not me writing a poem suffice instead of just claiming to be able to write one?

Quote :

Hah, your mother is Christian too!

Tell me, does she ‘pray’ for your soul, does she say that she wants you to be ‘saved’?

No, because she's more intelligent...genetic again.
She is a woman so that makes any irrational thinking difficult, but she's more pragmatic about her faith.

She admits that she needs it because it gives her strength.

Your mother, and the flawed genes she gave you, can explain why you are as stupid as you are.

Quote :

How do you deal with the old woman?

we're the best of friends. She's actually one of the few people I respect.

Quote :

Yes, Satyr, not everything is reduced to reason and philosophy. We’re partially emotional too…

In your case that much is painfully obvious.

Quote :

Philosophy, for me, is an intellectual pastime. It can and do improve our intelligence and our ability to reason. But it’s not essential, and it’s doesn’t really change anything.

there you go...mental masturbation.

Quote :

Faust is just too pragmatic to your tastes, just like me.

Retard, pragmatic means using insights, getting nutrition from thoughts, not just endlessly chewing on them like gum, getting nothing, and then throwing the gum away when your stress is relieved.

You two are the least pragmatic of all.
He, actually, admits that he's just there to have fun...no seeking truth...just shooting the shit and pretending something profound is occurring.

Why?
Because he has no mind for it, so he dismisses it as not useful.

Ah, retard, if only you could see what power lies in philosophy.
But you cannot because you have to be given the utility...you must be force-fed like a little baby.

Quote :

maybe if you show me how it has actually changed and helped you, it could help me too

that’s what I’m asking, after all.

and don't dare to talk about Nietzsche as if you knew him better than I do...

See what I mean?

You have to be given the usefulness, because you are unable to find it on your own. you don't even understand most of the things you read and so like all retards in school you tune out and you make fun of nerds who can get it.

Simpleton, and I mean it, it's all about efficiency...cost/benefit.

When you understand, for instance, how women, in general think and behave, you stop chasing dreams, you stop wasting your time with ineffective strategies or on goals that will not satisfy you.
It's about focusing the Will more precisely, and not being controlled by social and cultural trends and peer pressure.

It is about knowing yourself.

With women, in particular, it has helped me a lot...in my younger years. now I don't give a shit as much to put any of my insights into practice.
In dealing with others, in general, it has helped me enormously, by understanding the beasts before me.

In knowing what is valuable and necessary to me and what important in my life, besides what I am told should be important.

Quote :

No,

In fact I can imagine NO BENEFIT at all, that’s the point, you ‘masculine’ mind…

And that is what makes you so special.

Then wait for death...it'll only be a slight change to what your current state is.

Quote :

Back to what I was?

A whiner, begging to be given value.

Quote :

Listen, ‘retard’, your standards are not absolute, they’re as biased as they can be. THAT’S the fucking point!

You haven't pointed out where?

Retard, all opinions seek objectivity and find it to a degree.
There is no absolute, you moron, and that's why we seek the closest thing to it...clarity.

My opinions are more objective than anyone elses. They refer to reality, and do not deny it. they refer to observable phenomena, not delusions.

You just make statements with no accompanying arguments...and that's why you are retarded and a waste of my time.

Whether you like it or not, there is a reality and our challenge is to see it as fully as we can, before we die...but if you wish to hide from it and seek out happiness, like wonderer, then go for it.

my motive is objectivity...you just want to excuse your own inability by making it all equally subjective...degree, retard, degree.

Quote :

No, I don’t think so. Call me an idiot or a feminized mind if you will. I don’t think people are piles of shit.

Failed genetics, then.

Your heritage matters, little brain.

Quote :

ha, a confession that you don’t really know me…

retard, do you try to read or try to dismiss?
Reread what I said.
I know you more intimately than most people around you do...I know how you think.
But you want help and so this is a specific request...help with what...i cannot know the specifics of your immediate environment...only how you've reacted to it.

You are pathetic...keep squirming.

Quote :

you’re always saying that we’re all afraid of reality: which reality? The one you live in? Is it the only one? Isn’t this concept vague and imperfect? Do we even know what our true ‘reality’ is?

Reality is that which we all have varying degrees of accurate perception on.

Reality is the common experience that is independent from our will and our desires and our interpretations.
Our task is to make our interpretations of it as accurate as possible...as objective as possible.

The universe doesn't care...

Quote :

i wonder how the people around you would react if they knew what you think about most human beings...

hypocrisy is a wonderful thing, isn't it?

Yes it is and self-hypocrisy, your kind, is disgusting.

The few times that i have let somethings go, I've faced dismay and horror...so now i only share certain part of my thinking with certain people, a few select friends that get it.

With the rest I pretend.

Quote :

I don’t want to ‘stay’ as I am

I want to change as soon as I see a good reason to do it.

Then how about exploring your full potentials before you die, you brain-dead retard?

Quote :

the you’re just nothing but a big hypocrite. That’s all.

And in a few days I intend to become an even bigger one.
what cultural bullshit you've bought into...call me a thief, why don't you or an adulterer...shit boy, i've overcome these cultural controls.

Here's what I will not be: delusional and a hypocrite to my self, first, and to a select few others, second.

Quote :

that was a question based on your own assessment on me. You have emphatically declared that I may be ‘intellectually’ inferior to you. In this sense, you wouldn’t and couldn’t offer me anything, right?

I've offered all I've got, honestly, directly and in public.

If you can find no use for them, then go away!!!
Ignore me...you simpleton. Leave me alone.

You want a leader, a father and i already have a son...and I don't require followers.


............

Quote :

I lose my patience easily. I get tired easily. That’s why I abandoned my little ‘moronic’ act…

But if I had patience, I’m sure I could deceive you for a long time.

I could pretend to be a woman, like Echo, or Ingenium, and make you believe me.

But you are a woman...in how you think.

And? Deceiving me on line would give you that much needed ego boost, that support that you are smart, right?

Trust me, face to face, you have just about chance of deceiving me as a Christian has of converting me.
But how easily you expose yourself, retard.

What you just said pulsated with need. I suspected it and thanks for verifying my suspicions.
I bet you giggle when you trick me on-line. It gives you that excuse to dismiss all the things I've said about you.

Quote :

a lesson that could be useful to you only, not to me. I don’t want to ‘dominate’ you, I don’t believe everything in this world is about domination, not when we’re aware that we can overcome this natural ethos.

Oh retard and this statement is contradicted by what you said before.

It's all about power...and you fooling me gives you that, does it not?

Quote :

I didn’t use the word in the same sense as Christians do, I don’t want to humiliate you so that you may be 'under my influence' or whatever.

i want to test your limits, Satyr: what are you capable of admitting in the end, what are the weaknesses you can't hide from me.

See, there it is again....the duplicity...you know little of what motivates you and now you present yourself as knowing me...you want o tell yourself, and me, that you control me....you see me...

Quote :

Satyr, we can OVERCOME mere and ruthless egoism if we will

we can abandon the 'imperatives' of nature if we're strong enough to do so

spoken like all true nihilists.

I don't want to escape my self, i want to complete my self as much as possible.

But you and your kind can go back to your self-hating, christian shame, seeking salvation in annihilating your essence.

Quote :

there's a difference

i KNOW, and i HAVE REASONS to believe that i'm not inferior to you or to anyone

If a dog could speak it would say the same thing.

But evidence to the contrary abounds.

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it's you who has to prove the opposite.

Why is that?

Are you not here, trying to bring me down?
Are you not reading my material and commenting on it?
Are you not trying to measure up to me?

Your actions, retard, are more honest, because your words are based no duplicity and an absence of self-consciousness.

Quote :

Good, you’ll be a good father, I’m sure

I can’t imagine you beating or humiliating your son, for instance.

Beating him?

Are you mad?

Why would I stunt a part of my self that will continue on after I am gone?

Humiliate him?
I want him to humble me, by becoming ten times what I am.

Too bad for you.