It is Time to bring Incest out of the Family Closet

The taboo against incest began
as a clan custom during the Bronze Age

Virgins received a high bride price
This assured paternity
and helped to cement clan alliances

The hold-over into modern times
makes no sense
keeping incest in the closet
is causing untold harm

Thousands
if not millions of families
are forced by law
to live lives of fear and shame
because some damn fool geneticists
a century ago,
interested only in laboratory statistics,
stated that a small percentage of incestuous offspring,
might suffer some form of genetic disorder.

And what I am saying
loud and clear
so that deaf ears might hear

Firstly:
The whole of species evolution
is founded on incest
it is thereore
not even remotely unnatural,

Secondly
healthy parents
no matter what their relationship
will beget perfectly healthy off spring
and unhealthy parents
not matter what their relationship
will beget unhealthy offspring

Thirdly
the law against incest
is unjustly and cruelly punishing the innocent
for no sound reason.

It should be put aside
and allow families
to come out of the closet
and live normal lives

I would like to know what anybody with some balls
has to say about all that.

Shit, is the moral levitating, mind-reading, retard admitting he's had dirty thoughts bout his daughter?

Yeup...a new age is upon us.

MagnetMan wrote:

The taboo against incest began
as a clan custom during the Bronze Age

I disagree.

Incest as a 'taboo' began when human tribes first started to form. Interbreeding is *ALWAYS* a weaker form of procreation (on average) compared to out-breeding. This is part of the reason why early human tribes conquered and traded women with other tribes. Nature prefers to select higher differentiations between bloodlines in order to gain all the prior benefits and eliminate all the weaknesses. This is why people (mostly Amerikans) are selecting mates from across the world in the 21st Century. Not only is it natural to subconsciously-desire to out-breed; it is also easily-observable and recordable. In fact, here is a simple study that anybody can run:

Take the divorce rate of Amerikan-born citizens marrying one another.

Compare it to the divorce rate of Amerikan-born citizens (males) marrying foreign women.

I will bet you a very large sum of money that the marriage success rate of the latter will be astronomical compared to the former.

MagnetMan wrote:

Virgins received a high bride price
This assured paternity
and helped to cement clan alliances

Virginity is not necessarily-related to incest; so this reasoning is superfluous.

In other words, a person can be incestuous while being either a virgin or not.

MagnetMan wrote:

The hold-over into modern times
makes no sense
keeping incest in the closet
is causing untold harm

Thousands
if not millions of families
are forced by law
to live lives of fear and shame
because some damn fool geneticists
a century ago,
interested only in laboratory statistics,
stated that a small percentage of incestuous offspring,
might suffer some form of genetic disorder.

I disagree.

Incest runs much deeper than the empirical geneticists of the last few centuries. It is in the bible. It is in every moral code & structure throughout the world. Moral Authorities from the Old Days, as shaman, noticed the negative affects of too much inbreeding. While *SOME* inbreeding may be okay, given a long enough period of time, it creates vast genetic deficiencies, as noted by Pandora from ILP. She/he is correct there.

MagnetMan wrote:

And what I am saying
loud and clear
so that deaf ears might hear

Firstly:
The whole of species evolution
is founded on incest
it is thereore
not even remotely unnatural,

You are not taking into account the benefits of inbreeding v outbreeding as part of tribal mechanics, and warfare.

MagnetMan wrote:

Secondly
healthy parents
no matter what their relationship
will beget perfectly healthy off spring
and unhealthy parents
not matter what their relationship
will beget unhealthy offspring

You are not taking into account the exponential amount of energy inbreeding requires by the 'healthy' parents.

Although it may be true that healthy parents may beget a healthy child incestuously, this does not mean that there will be no negative consequences in the distant-future. In fact, science, religion, and even philosophy tell us otherwise. There will be negative consequences? My hypothesis is that the energy required to sustain the 'health' of the 'healthy' parents becomes more and more taxing. Genetic diseases will creep into the mix.

In today's world, contemporarily-speaking, it becomes even more immediate. Rather than take 100 incestuous generations to witness the malformities; it may take 10 or even 1 incestuous generation to witness them. The cause of this is due to the extreme amount of sexual pressure there is in today's world to procreate through outbreeding.

MagnetMan wrote:

Thirdly
the law against incest
is unjustly and cruelly punishing the innocent
for no sound reason.

What law do you speak of? -- moral law, civil law, empirical law, etc.???

MagnetMan wrote:

It should be put aside
and allow families
to come out of the closet
and live normal lives

Just because us men want to fuck our daughters doesn't mean that we ever should.

REASON is the key ... the ancient wise men have already-done this work for us regarding incest.

They created Moral Law to reject inbreeding, because they knew of the negative consequences. Do the homework.

MagnetMan wrote:

I would like to know what anybody with some balls
has to say about all that.

My balls have spoken.

I think the only possible healthy incest is between brother and sister-- and that is without pregnancy (cousins are okay, and legally okay too in the U.S. I believe). And it probably happens more than we believe it does. I never, personally, have had sex with my sister but I did occasionaly fantasize about it in my own privacy. TMI? I'm sharing my thoughts. I have, though, stopped fantasizing about ANYONE. To me I believe in keeping the mind pure. When I masturbate I do so with pornography and think about the women in the images that have been PAID to do their job. I also do not fantasize about anybody I know.

Any other incest should not be performed, let alone brought out of the closet.

My opinion: *ALL* first-familial relationships will cause more harm than good regarding sexually-intimate relationships.

This means: parents with children, siblings with siblings, *PERIOD*.

SpeedOfSilence wrote:

Any other incest should not be performed, let alone brought out of the closet.

The point here is not to encourage it.

Adult love should have no boundaries.
For most there is a sense of aversion to incest.
Why have a law for something that regulates itself?

My point about bringing it out of the closet
is for the sake of the children of incestuous relationships.
Why should they suffer in hiding
and lead lives of shame?

Quote :

[quote="MagnetMan"]
For most there is a sense of aversion to incest.

This ^ begets this:

Quote :

is for the sake of the children of incestuous relationships.
Why should they suffer in hiding
and lead lives of shame?

It's an aversion for a reason. The geneticist was right; whether you are ready and able to accept it or not. I suspect there are few (if any) children of incestuous relationships who emerge 'unscathed'. Therefore general 'aversion' to incest does act as a preventative of sorts.

gene shuffling on the whole is good for a body

suffer the little children

MagnetMan wrote:

It is Time to bring Incest out of the Family Closet?

I'd say bring it out, let's see.

SpeedOfSilence wrote:

I have, though, stopped fantasizing about ANYONE. To me I believe in keeping the mind pure.

...

When I masturbate I do so with pornography and think about the women in the images that have been PAID to do their job. I also do not fantasize about anybody I know.

Don't these lines contradict? I "believe in keeping the mind pure" too; POE as they say. I think only about abstract shapes and light when I de-masturbate, because I have truly overcome sexuality.

Pornography is made, designed to keep you mansterbating; heaven forbid you should turn your attention towards someone real who you "know".

maryshelley wrote:

It's an aversion for a reason. The geneticist was right; whether you are ready and able to accept it or not. I suspect there are few (if any) children of incestuous relationships who emerge 'unscathed'. Therefore general 'aversion' to incest does act as a preventative of sorts.

gene shuffling on the whole is good for a body

suffer the little children

It is my contention that the natural sexual aversion
we all feel inside the small family group
has nothing to to do with the social taboo against incest

We are all searching for the right mate
In the process of mate selection the aversion is innate
It is rare within the small family group
to find the right mate
so we go out and search within the larger family

Incest happens when the aversion barriers are down
between two consenting adults
the act is then natural
and the family
should not be penalized

I am not including dysfunctional abuse
molestation
or pedophilia
that should be outlawed
within or without the family gropup

MagnetMan wrote:

Incest happens when the aversion barriers are down
between two consenting adults
the act is then natural
and the family
should not be penalized

I am not including dysfunctional abuse
molestation
or pedophilia
that should be outlawed
within or without the family group

Under what circumstances would the former preclude the latter?

Dako wrote:

SpeedOfSilence wrote:

I have, though, stopped fantasizing about ANYONE. To me I believe in keeping the mind pure.

...

When I masturbate I do so with pornography and think about the women in the images that have been PAID to do their job. I also do not fantasize about anybody I know.

Don't these lines contradict? I "believe in keeping the mind pure" too; POE as they say. I think only about abstract shapes and light when I de-masturbate, because I have truly overcome sexuality.

Pornography is made, designed to keep you mansterbating; heaven forbid you should turn your attention towards someone real who you "know".

These lines do not contradict.

Everyone's natural state is meditation (the mind is silent) and the 5 senses work without thought. However when we do engage in the sixth sense (mind) we create a dream that momentarily believe.

So the mind can be pure but when desire arises do to biological impulses there is no reason to fight it. Since I don't have a girlfriend I use porn instead. Using the mind to get into porn is the same as getting the mind into a movie, a book or a real woman's body.

But the reason i don't use a thought of women i know is because it is, in a sense, rape. Women in porn, however, have agreed to have their image masturbated upon. They were compensated for that.

Masturbating on someone you know without their consent is rape.

Dako wrote:

I "believe in keeping the mind pure" too; POE as they say. I think only about abstract shapes and light when I de-masturbate, because I have truly overcome sexuality.

SpeedofSilence wrote:

Everyone's natural state is meditation (the mind is silent) and the 5 senses work without thought. However when we do engage in the sixth sense (mind) we create a dream that momentarily believe.

Or else it is dread and desire ?!

Quote :

Since I don't have a girlfriend I use porn instead.

Incest porn I assume.

Quote :

Using the mind to get into porn is the same as getting the mind into a movie, a book or a real woman's body.

Really?

Quote :

But the reason i don't use a thought of women i know is because it is, in a sense, rape.

If a woman is raped in the forest, and no one is there to hear, does it make a sound?

Quote :

Women in porn, however, have agreed to have their image masturbated upon. They were compensated for that.

Masturbating on someone you know without their consent is rape.

Is it okay to masturbate on a sea urchin?

Maybe we can get some proper testimony?

http://forum.incestsite.com/

http://www.actualincest.com/forums/

Or,

http://www.sssalas.com/EmotionalHealing.html

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/no-justice-incest-victims

[quote="MagnetMan"]

SpeedOfSilence wrote:

My point about bringing it out of the closet
is for the sake of the children of incestuous relationships.
Why should they suffer in hiding
and lead lives of shame?

MM me thinks that thou doth protest too much. When I first met you in another forum we had established that you left society and full time employment to home school your kids and bring them up in a managed enviroment away from the school system and their peers. It sounded a bit Uni bnomber to me, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt as to your motives. When I suggested to you that your true motives were psychologically self serving you replied with , I am not commenting further to you.

Now I find you espousing the pro's of incest for the childrens sake , You don't have to be a seasoned social worker to put social isolation, home schooling, 24/7 interaction, children, and a pro opinioned parent in regard to incest together and come up with a profile that is common in child sexual and psychological abuse cases. Your ideals about consenting adults and and unadulterated transmission of genes to the offspring is laughable. nearly all incest cases involve minors, and the well documented lives of the monarchy of Europe demonstrated closed pool gene transmission from an initially varied gene pool.

Your glib wash over of the core issues to perpitrator and victim scream sociopath. As I said I suspect your motives are totally self serving. Your profile of isolation, pathological distrust of the government, and the need to control all facets of your enviroment and the social interaction of your immediate family ( this is usually the case as the individual does not have the charisma to control any one else outside his immidiate physical and psychological jurisdiction ) could lead one who deals with social dysfunction to make certain assumptions. I would surmise that the issue of power and control might be explored as these two characterr traits play a major part in the psychological matrix of the incestuous perpitrator.

MM thank you for participating on these forums, you certainly entertain novel ideas, be they psychotic.

Sonofgloin wrote:

Now I find you espousing the pro's of incest for the childrens sake , You don't have to be a seasoned social worker to put social isolation, home schooling, 24/7 interaction, children, and a pro opinioned parent in regard to incest together and come up with a profile that is common in child sexual and psychological abuse cases.

Be that as it may, it is nice that some folk are able to overcome this sort of social and state terrorism and talk about what's on their mind.

Hadji wrote:

Be that as it may, it is nice that some folk are able to overcome this sort of social and state terrorism and talk about what's on their mind.

strange as it may sound, I agree with you here...

also, MM may be justified if he's just concerned with the lives of children born out of incest...it's not their guilty after all.

Hadji wrote:

Sonofgloin wrote:

Now I find you espousing the pro's of incest for the childrens sake , You don't have to be a seasoned social worker to put social isolation, home schooling, 24/7 interaction, children, and a pro opinioned parent in regard to incest together and come up with a profile that is common in child sexual and psychological abuse cases.

Be that as it may, it is nice that some folk are able to overcome this sort of social and state terrorism and talk about what's on their mind.

H I was addressing an observation to MM in regard to his lifestyle choices and his views on incest which in 99% of cases can be dually designated as an act of pedophilia. I really did not address his points individually as Unreasonable did a fairly constructive reply and left little left to say regarding MM's reasoning, it was addressed.

I thought about the motives for the thread and the way the thread was poised and themed, it was more intersting to me than the original premise of the thread which was decriminalizing and fostering social acceptance of the incestuous relationship. Pick a low single figure digit and that is the percentage of disclosed or prosecuted pedophiles, and as I stated previously parental or sibling incest starts in pre pubescence. Although the thread champions the emancipation of the incestuous relationship for the benefit of the children I considered the motives of the writer given I knew some relevant background on his stated lifesyle.

There is no way that I am trying to stifle, nor could I stifle MM's free thought, I have read reams of his thoughts and they are fixed and resolute. As for the overcoming of the social and state terrorism that envelopes the subject of incest........get real, the subject is uncomfortable for the majority of the population, not for you and me perhaps, but it will never be a subject for general discussion.

Drone wrote:

Hadji wrote:

Be that as it may, it is nice that some folk are able to overcome this sort of social and state terrorism and talk about what's on their mind.

strange as it may sound, I agree with you here...

also, MM may be justified if he's just concerned with the lives of children born out of incest...it's not their guilty after all.

Incestuous relationships are as much a self gratification for power as they are sexually gratifying. The two meld during the exercise and that stimulation becomes the motivation for the act. The vast majority of long term incestuous relationships leaves the partner of the incestuous parent emotionally and sexually isolated with all focus on the sex object that the perpitrator feels they have supreme emotional and physical control over.

This acceptance of non consensual sex by the law or wider society is not a positive outcome for the victim, it would be an abandonment of the unprotected, given that one party in the relationship is going to be a minor in the vast majority of cases.

Just for the record I have no social or ethical problem with a strong young adult over the age of 18 who suddenly wants to fuck his or her 50 year old parent or visa versa....but what are the chances of that becoming a common social morass.

hi there

well, just like you, I also have no problem with whatever two adult people decide to do with each other- the personal lives of others is not my business. I just think this topic that MM brought here is interesting because he thinks about the weaker part of the situation, i.e., the children that might result from such relationships. Since they're clearly not gulty of their birth, discrimination against them is more than absurd, it's terribly unfair.

Now, when it comes to child abuse, that is, to incestuous relationships involving an adult and a child, say father and daughter, the situation is pretty different. Child abuse is child abuse.

Drone wrote:

hi there

well, just like you, I also have no problem with whatever two adult people decide to do with each other- the personal lives of others is not my business. I just think this topic that MM brought here is interesting because he thinks about the weaker part of the situation, i.e., the children that might result from such relationships. Since they're clearly not gulty of their birth, discrimination against them is more than absurd, it's terribly unfair.

Now, when it comes to child abuse, that is, to incestuous relationships involving an adult and a child, say father and daughter, the situation is pretty different. Child abuse is child abuse.

The Salem witch hunt
and judgment passed
is what incest is focused on
finding a scapegoat
for the holier-than-thou

They did this to homosexuals
until they fought back

The innocent child of incest
who I am fighting for
is ignored
I will take the mud sling
the mission is worth it

Drone
you are a true human being

Sonofgoloin
you belong with the mob

MagnetMan wrote:

The Salem witch hunt
and judgment passed
is what incest is focused on
finding a scapegoat
for the holier-than-thou


I will take the mud sling
the mission is worth it

Drone
you are a true human being

Sonofgoloin
you belong with the mob

MM. I have qualified to you that consensual adult incest is an individuals personal decision, and I have no beef with that. I also said that the vast vast vast majority of incestuous relationships begin with the non instigator being a minor, a child, and that is pedophilia. There is a power and control aspect that enhances the sexual experience and I am against that form of incest because the child has no choice and no understanding.

I will give you two examples of incest and perhaps you could tell me your thoughts on each situation.

In the bible it say's that Lot's daughters got him smashed and became impegnated by him because they believed every body had died at Soddom and Gomorrah including their mum, the sticky beak. Is this a positive incestuous encounter and one that you would condone. At the time the daughters were of marrying age for the era...probably from 13 upwards and I personally can relate to that situation or indeed any where the gene pool is limited, a sort of to be or not to be situation.

Fred lives today and has a wife and two female children, one is four and one is seven. He f.... the 7 yo regularly and has done for a year, previous to that he sexually assaulted the child from the age of 5 without full on f...... her. He molests his younger one as well but must wait till she is older for practical physical reasons before he can fullfill his desires (it turns my stomach to write this). MM would you condone this act or legitamize it as incest?

In your OP you ended by saying, does anyone with balls have something to say about it. Tell me MM are you for f...... your children when they are little ones or do you want to watch them grow up and then start f...... them. please give me a direct amswer and not the escape artist rhetoric you put in your OP in regard to saving the children by rationalizing pedophilia as "incest for the sake of humanity".

Re running with the mob, my mob do not contemplate f...... their children.

Let's re-write this sans dysphemism...

Sonofgloin wrote:

Fred lives today and has a wife and two female children, one is four and one is seven. He f.... the 7 yo regularly and has done for a year, previous to that he sexually assaulted the child from the age of 5 without full on f...... her. He molests his younger one as well but must wait till she is older for practical physical reasons before he can fullfill his desires (it turns my stomach to write this). MM would you condone this act or legitamize it as incest?

Fred lives today and has a wife and two girls, Winny is four and Sunny is seven. He and Sunny make love regularly and have done for a year, previous to that they were erotic together from the age of 5 without fully entering her. He is intimate with Winny as well but must wait till she is older for practical physical reasons before he can fullfill his desires (it gives me butterflies in my stomach to write this).

Hadji wrote:

Let's re-write this sans dysphemism...

Sonofgloin wrote:

Fred lives today and has a wife and two female children, one is four and one is seven. He f.... the 7 yo regularly and has done for a year, previous to that he sexually assaulted the child from the age of 5 without full on f...... her. He molests his younger one as well but must wait till she is older for practical physical reasons before he can fullfill his desires (it turns my stomach to write this). MM would you condone this act or legitamize it as incest?

Fred lives today and has a wife and two girls, Winny is four and Sunny is seven. He and Sunny make love regularly and have done for a year, previous to that they were erotic together from the age of 5 without fully entering her. He is intimate with Winny as well but must wait till she is older for practical physical reasons before he can fullfill his desires (it gives me butterflies in my stomach to write this).

Well-stated retort Hadji!

Funny how little a word can change the whole fucking lot, can it not!?


Incest is going to become the defining Moral Issue of the 21st Century in terms of Liberalism v Conservatism.

The debates are going to get nasty; I hope they will be more emotionally-vested than abortion arguments at least...

Unreasonable wrote:

The debates are going to get nasty; I hope they will be more emotionally-vested than abortion arguments at least...

The abortion arguments are a model for protest and debate, like it or not.

I'm not so certain that incest will be the issue of the next century? Does it connect to the banking crisis somehow?